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Jun 27th 2013 edited

I would much rather have people tell me what they want than try to be polite and make me feel like I'm being lied to. I mean, there's nothing wrong with "thank you" and "please", but most other social niceties just make me feel tired and irritated. And hungry. And like I need to be burped. And possibly have my diaper changed.

This. Plus, I'm an idiot. I do stupid things sometimes and rather than have people 'be nice' and gently try to hint (I won't get it), just *&^%ing tell me. I can take it. I make mistakes. I'd rather not make it again. So just tell me! It's just like having a booger on your face. Tell me, man. We all have a booger on our face from time to time.

My friends, and they are few, are people who tell me the real deal. And I love them for it every time. They are also people who don't get insulted very easy or take everything personally. And, yes, a few of them are grumpy bastards that everyone else thinks are assholes, but that's everyone else's fault for being too sensitive. Real friends care enough about you to be an asshole when they have to be.

Jun 27th 2013

Tell me, man. We all have a booger on our face from time to time.

So true! When my fly is down, or when I have broccoli in my teeth, tell me. Don't let me find out an hour later that I spend the whole time talking to you like that. I'll feel worse afterward than I will feel embarrassed at the time. Promise.

Jun 27th 2013

Oh, I'm not polite like I have all the social graces. My wife thinks I don't know when to shake people's hands, or address them properly, and crap like that. I'm nice like if you cross me, I won't tell you off, I'll just not associate with you any more. And then when I see you in the mall five years later, I'll make nice small talk, and not tell you what a jerk you were. But I still won't be your friend.

Jun 27th 2013

When my fly is down, or when I have broccoli in my teeth, tell me

That has nothing to do with being "too nice". Even I'd tell you that. I'd tell you, even if you were my enemy, because I don't want you to be embarrassed later.

Jun 27th 2013

I'm nice like if you cross me, I won't tell you off, I'll just not associate with you any more.

See, I'd rather be told than have to sit there and wonder why you suddenly run the other way every time I show up in the breakroom when you're in there. I'd rather just know. I mean, like I said, I'm just an idiot sometimes. I totally make people angry on accident. If I do it on purpose, that's one thing. But if I didn't, don't leave me hanging, man. Help me not do it to someone else.

Jun 27th 2013

I'm nice like if you cross me, I won't tell you off, I'll just not associate with you any more. And then when I see you in the mall five years later, I'll make nice small talk, and not tell you what a jerk you were. But I still won't be your friend.

This is also me.

Jun 27th 2013

I think the people I don't associate with are fully aware of why I don't. Other people might have personality types that I just don't jive with. Like, for instance, if you were someone who was just loud and obnoxious and constantly crude at work (where I think you shouldn't be), what purpose does it serve to corner you in the break room and tell you that? You can't change. You shouldn't change just because I don't like you. Better that I just avoid you.

My wife, on the other hand, will tell you exactly what you're doing wrong and why she doesn't like it. She makes a lot of enemies as well as a lot of friends. I'm not saying she's wrong or I'm right. We should probably both try to move towards the middle.

Jun 27th 2013 edited

My wife, on the other hand, will tell you exactly what you're doing wrong and why she doesn't like it.

If your wife did this to me, I would be polite and respectful, but I probably wouldn't talk to her again unless I had to. Well, I shouldn't say that. I guess it would depend on what she felt I was doing wrong. If it was just her opinion about something that I didn't really agree with, I wouldn't challenge her on it, but I'd go away and probably think to myself that your wife is opinionated and so I have to remember not to engage her.

ETA, my wife is also very much a 'black and white' person. She says exactly what she thinks about issues or things, just says it right out. Like, she'd just blurt out "bears, beets, battlestar galactica". Whereas I am very cautious about just throwing something out there, without first considering all the opposing views that might be represented in the room. I would preface all my comments by first saying stuff like "Now I know that there are different schools of thought on the subject, but I happen to think bears, beets, battlestar galactica, but that's just my opinion."

Of course, there's a connection to confidence here too. But overconfidence can be arrogance if not kept in check.

Jun 27th 2013

I like to think I can be straight with people, and honest and respectful. But maybe I'm not with most people. I hate small talk and conversations about nothing that my more sociable brother and his friends in town have.

But anyways, I think I'm that way towards you all... open and warm, and I don't feel like I'm dishonest on the rare times I say nice things...

I think that politeness doesn't have to equal dishonesty. I'm not sure what I'd call that fake phoniness that I get from acquaintances in my town. I know what you mean, but I don't think I'd call that being polite. I'd call it being fake.

There are a lot of people that my brother knows and he'll tell me an anecdote about and I'll say, "Ugh. I can't stand her." And he'll say, "What? She loves you." And I'll say, "I've never had one conversation with her."

But they feel like they know me, from God only knows what context, if they're a customer from work or I've said "Hello" at the grocery store. To me, they're a person I've seen before. To them, we're friends.

And it's based on nothing, and it's uncomfortable. Or not nothing, but based on assumptions on their part.

I feel like this is off topic. I need to get back to this report I'm doing.

Jun 27th 2013

I'm nice like if you cross me, I won't tell you off, I'll just not associate with you any more. And then when I see you in the mall five years later, I'll make nice small talk, and not tell you what a jerk you were. But I still won't be your friend.

I am you.

Jun 27th 2013

See, I'd rather be told than have to sit there and wonder why you suddenly run the other way every time I show up in the breakroom when you're in there. I'd rather just know. I mean, like I said, I'm just an idiot sometimes. I totally make people angry on accident. If I do it on purpose, that's one thing. But if I didn't, don't leave me hanging, man. Help me not do it to someone else.

This.

Jinx, I like your wife. I'm sorry if that's hard for you to hear.

I'm nice like if you cross me, I won't tell you off, I'll just not associate with you any more. And then when I see you in the mall five years later, I'll make nice small talk, and not tell you what a jerk you were. But I still won't be your friend.

If someone really wrongs me (not some petty little wrong), I won't necessary blow up, but I will let them know right up front that they wronged me, and that I am not happy about it and that they're not my friend anymore. And I will remember. And someday, when the opportunity presents itself, I will even the score.

I'm not saying that as something I'm proud of - I definitely see it as a fault. But it is also the way I am.

Jun 27th 2013

If your wife did this to me, I would be polite and respectful, but I probably wouldn't talk to her again unless I had to.

This is her problem. Also, she doesn't see it as her opinion. It's just a fact that you should cut your meat this way before eating it. You're an idiot if you don't recognize that.

Jun 27th 2013

I won't necessary blow up, but I will let them know right up front that they wronged me

If my mother or brother or dad, they're probably the only people on earth I'd react to this way, do something, I will call them out and get angry and then immediately move on with my life. Like, I'm over it once I talk about it.

If a friend or other makes me mad, I'll wait a little while, think about it and then talk to them about the situation.

If someone I only kind of know makes me mad, I won't care and I'll try avoid them forever.

If someone I only kind of know acts like they know me really well, I get irritated and try to avoid them forever.

If someone I only kind of know slowly gets to know me, I'll eventually warm up to them. I don't hate people. I hate fake people.

Jun 27th 2013

It's just a fact that you should cut your meat this way before eating it. You're an idiot if you don't recognize that.

Okay, that may be taking it a bit too far. Everyone knows they should cut meat the way I say.

Jun 27th 2013 edited

You can't change. You shouldn't change just because I don't like you. Better that I just avoid you.

See, but this is the thing: I really like you, Jinx. It matters to me what you think and it certainly matters to me if I've offended you in some way. I'd hope to even have a chance to say, "You're right. I was an idiot and I'm really sorry I behaved that way. Thank you for telling me." That goes for the rest of you beautiful people here too. I know I'm a big mouth sometimes, but I care about all of yas, and if I'm bugging you please tell me so I can be more considerate of you.

I, also in well, like your wife.

Example:

I went out to lunch one time with some other higher up admin assistants in the administration building of the school that will not be named. We had a pretty good time chatting except that the waitress was awful. When I say awful, I mean awful. She took forever to get the orders, she was incredibly acerbic and irritable when we mentioned that she'd forgotten one of the ladies drinks and then she STILL forgot it when she came back to the table 20 minutes later to pick up the check. It was the most awful service I'd ever seen. I was a waitress for a while and when you wait tables, you better grow some customer service skills or busy days are going to be hell. So when we were all pooling up the money, I decided to pay with my card and I chose not to tip her. One of the other girls disagreed with me. "Do you know how much she makes? It's not even a living wage." So I said that I was not going to tip her, but she could have her extra money back and if she chose to tip her she was welcome to. So she turned right around on our walk back to the office and walked to the restaurant and tipped her. I respected her for sticking to her conventions and I hoped she'd give me the same respect. Not so much.

None of those ladies ever asked me to lunch again. And maybe I should have known I'd done something so egregious and horrible that I was simply to uncouth to hang out with. But I didn't. And it took me a year or two of the breakroom thing to finally figure out what it must have been.

See, I didn't think it was that big of a deal to have a disagreement about whether or not a waitress with a craptastic attitude should get a tip. As far as I know, we just disagreed and we came to an amicable compromise. But apparently it was a big deal.

And from now on, when I'm eating with new folks that I don't know all that well, I'll behave differently just to make sure I'm not offending four other people at one time before they even get to know me.

But I wish the girl had been a little more human about talking to me. She's got all the right moves in terms of being thoughtful about the plight of the poor overworked underpaid waitress (very politically correct around here) but her skills on recognizing he plight of all of humanity (everyone makes mistakes - we all come from different backgrounds and different places with different viewpoints) weren't all that great. You're really going to decide I'm a horrible person worth ostracizing based on that one event? It's not like I was a bigot or a racist or that I shot and killed someone to get five extra bucks. It just seems ridiculous to me.

And later when I applied for any jobs in any of their departments I never so much as got a call back, even though I was very qualified and actually had experience in administration. So I'm sure that lack of tip was paid back to me tenfold. It's a good thing, too, because I'm a really horrible person and hopefully I learned my lesson about not being so hateful.

But my point is that I'd really like to avoid that kind of situation when I can.

Jun 27th 2013

If my mother or brother or dad, they're probably the only people on earth I'd react to this way, do something, I will call them out and get angry and then immediately move on with my life. Like, I'm over it once I talk about it.

This is how I am. I'd rather have it out and then let go.

Jun 27th 2013

If someone wrongs me once, I'll probably just let it slide and chalk it up to a bad day. If they repeat the same behavior, then they're dead to me.

Jun 27th 2013

Also, she doesn't see it as her opinion. It's just a fact that you should cut your meat this way before eating it. You're an idiot if you don't recognize that.

I have met people like this, and I have faced them down and won every time. I am stubborn, smart, and I know better than everybody else and my opinions aren't opinions, they're facts, dammit.

Also, if someone pisses me off, I'll let them know. Like, at work I'll usually be like, "Yo, could you go ahead and not do that again?" If we're in the street, I'll tell a motherfucker to fuck off.

Jun 27th 2013

A, that is just like my wife. And there are times I'll say "good for you, stick up for what you believe in." But from my perspective...I don't like to make waves. The cost of "sticking up for yourself" means that one person is really going to admire you for it, and five others are going to think you're a jerk. Unless the waiter swears at me under his breath, I'm just tipping him the regular amount and not making waves.

It's probably not just that one time, A. You've probably done things like that a lot and it rubs people the wrong way.

My wife has made enemies with the local girl scout troop and council. Everything my wife says is true...they ARE incompetent. But at some point, you've got to live with these people. Unless you want to take over and run the Girl Scout troop, you need to make nice with them. Sure, laugh about their incompetence behind their backs. But don't confront them on it. It serves no purpose...they aren't going to change, and will just hate you for bringing it to their attention.

My wife is also not talking to two of her brothers. She's RIGHT in every issue she has with them...her brothers are jerks. But my wife is the one who tells them they are jerks. And now my daughter is missing half of her uncles and cousins because of it.

I think I am learning how to express myself when I feel I've been wronged. In that way, I am learning a lot from my wife. But at the same time...I just wish she wouldn't need to make a stand with EVERYONE who wrongs her.

Jun 27th 2013

I have met people like this, and I have faced them down and won every time. I am stubborn, smart, and I know better than everybody else and my opinions aren't opinions, they're facts, dammit.

How would you handle this...in the car, she's almost intolerable. When approaching a parking lot with two entrances, she'll motion to me the one I should be entering, and I'm like "really? I drove us 20 miles here, and I need direction on which entrance to use?" and she'll always have a reason..."well, this one makes sense because blah blah blah." And when I pull into a parking space, it's always the wrong one. I'm either too close to someone else, or too far from the store, or whatever. It frustrates her to no end. I can't just ignore her, because then she'll be like "You don't like being told what to do." And I'll be like "No one likes to be told in that kind of detail what to do. When you're driving, I don't tell you anything. It's your job to find a parking spot, and I accept it."

These are the kinds of control issues she has, and I know it causes her issues with other people. How can they not see the wisdom of this parking spot over that parking spot? They must be idiots, and I need to tell them.

Jun 27th 2013

You're really going to decide I'm a horrible person worth ostracizing based on that one event?

Also, if you were a casual co-worker, what you did would probably make me uncomfortable, and I would not tell you about it, and I would probably not go to lunch with you again if I could help it. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Not because I thought you're a horrible person, just because what you did at lunch made me uncomfortable.

If I know you well, then it's obviously another story. Remember, my wife does things like that as well, like call the waiter over and complain about the food, rather than suffer in silence like I would. You can say I don't stick up for myself, and you'd be right about that too.

Jun 27th 2013

These are the kinds of control issues she has, and I know it causes her issues with other people. How can they not see the wisdom of this parking spot over that parking spot? They must be idiots, and I need to tell them.

I can't imagine worrying about trivial details like what spot someone parks in or which entrance into the lot to take. Life is too short to spend time upset about crap like that.

Jun 27th 2013

She's aware of it...like if you talk to her about it not at that moment, she knows she has control issues. And you better not tell her what to do when she's driving (I don't anyways).

However, in the moment...she has tons of reasons why that spot is better, and if you protest, it just turns into an argument as she hits you with all the reasons. I'm not trying to change her, just trying to figure out how to defuse the situation. You're right...she must be tortured, constantly analyzing other people and figuring out what they should be doing. I feel bad for her, and I'm not being sarcastic about that.

Jun 27th 2013

It's probably not just that one time, A. You've probably done things like that a lot and it rubs people the wrong way.

You're right. Which is probably the other reason why I don't have 700 friends on bookface. But is it really that important to have 700 friends? I'd rather just have the really good 3 that I have.

Besides, if I'd gotten a job with those ladies, I'm sure something else would have come up where I offended them horribly so it was for the best anyway.

These are the kinds of control issues she has, and I know it causes her issues with other people. How can they not see the wisdom of this parking spot over that parking spot? They must be idiots, and I need to tell them.

I don't think of other people who don't agree with me as idiots. I really just feel like I'm helping when I share. It's what I would hope that other people would do for me. I don' t think it's a matter of thinking I'm better than everyone else. I know I'm not. And I doubt your wife really thinks that way either. She's just guilty of trying to be helpful and make everything the best it can be, no matter what the situation.

If people would just treat us like our help is coming from a good place with good intentions, (it definitely is) I think folks wouldn't spend so much time being offended. It doesn't offend me if you don't take my advice. That's what advice is. You offer it up and people take it or leave it.

Jun 27th 2013

Not because I thought you're a horrible person, just because what you did at lunch made me uncomfortable.

Aw, this makes me so sad. I'm sorry my intensity makes people uncomfortable. I guess I am intense with advice and enthusiasm and friendship. Is life worth living if everything you do is exactly 78 degrees, though? I know that when I make mistakes they are ridiculously colossally stupid. But when I'm good, I'm really really good. Isn't that worth it?

And I don't feel like I'm a crazy person. I don't walk around flipping everyone off and telling them to get over themselves. I just wish I didn't alienate quite so many people all the time.

Jun 27th 2013

I don't think of other people who don't agree with me as idiots. I really just feel like I'm helping when I share.

I think my wife feels that she's helping, too. But I've heard from many people, including her brothers: "She treats me like I'm an idiot."

It takes a special kind of person to tell you things in a certain way...and different people need different approaches. I had a friend who would try to tell me new tech stuff, but he always made it sound like "you're an idiot...you don't know this yet?". I had another friend who just had a way of telling me things that made me welcome his advice. It's a rare skill, and I can't say that I have it either.

Jun 27th 2013

If I had been at that lunch with you Anque, and I didn't understand why you didn't want to tip, I'd have asked you about it, and just tipped anyway, if I didn't agree with you. But I wouldn't have avoided you after that, or ostracized you based on that one experience. I just don't get people sometimes.

Jun 27th 2013

And you better not tell her what to do when she's driving (I don't anyways).

I am so very terribly guilty of this. Mr. A and you could bump some fists.

Jun 27th 2013

Sometimes it's as simple as this:

You know what? I had a nice car once, and the doors kept getting dinged real bad because I kept parking too close to other people Now I kind of have a phobia about it...can you just humor me and park in a really open space?

As opposed to:

Do you not care about your car? You're going to get a big dent and we can't afford to get it fixed now. My dad didn't have money either and he always took care of his car, you just have to pay attention to where you park. If I wasn't here you'd probably try to squeeze into that space.

Jun 27th 2013 edited

including her brothers: "She treats me like I'm an idiot."

I get this a lot. I don't mean to. And I really go out of my way when I'm showing someone something to make sure they understand that I'm not condescending or above them.

DftF had someone ask him recently what Harry Potter character they thought they were. I'm sure every girl's immediate response is Hermione, but I totally identify with her. Everyone always hated me in school because I raised my hand all the time and read too much and it seemed easy for me to get As. And I've had a lot of people in my life accuse me of thinking I'm smarter than everyone else. Including my stepmother who still has some sort of inferiority complex where I'm concerned that makes her all defensive and angry at me a lot.

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