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3.05 Initiation
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Jul 2nd 2008

mtt is right: Pam doesn't owe Jim a damn thing, nor he her. But withholding information certainly didn't advance their relationship on any level. Of course, that's always been her problem.

You can't make good decisions when you are missing facts. Had Pam been able to say more sooner, the entire course of events would have been different.

Jul 2nd 2008

Ummm, what?

I mean, in what way does Pam owe Jim an explanation? Why would he have had the right to "demand" anything from her? (It's your use of the word "demand" that doesn't sit right with me.)

She's a grown-up. She decided to break off her engagement after Jim had already bailed on her. Why does she owe him anything?

Jul 2nd 2008

mtt is right: Pam doesn't owe Jim a damn thing, nor he her.

She doesn't owe him anything, but that doesn't mean he has no right to ask. She told him (maybe not explicitly) that although she had feelings for him too that she was still going to marry Roy. Jim then moves to Stamford to avoid a painful situation and then discovers through a third party that she didn't in fact go through with the wedding. How is it reverting to the 18th century for him to ask what happened?

Jul 2nd 2008

I do understand why she closed up when he came back with Karen in tow, though.

Yes, so do I. That pretty much screamed, "I've moved on, get over it."

Jul 2nd 2008 edited

Had Pam been able to say more sooner, the entire course of events would have been different.

This may be very true. It may also have been true if Jim had been able to say more in Booze Cruise. On the other hand, it may not. Perhaps Pam needed Jim to declare his love, then leave, before she could come to realize how much he meant to her? And maybe Jim had to go through all the shit of trying to move on from Pam before he could realize that no one else was ever going to be able to make him happy?

Like all of us, I look at this show through the prism of my own experience. And in my experience, you can't take advantage of an opportunity until you, yourself, are really ready for it. Try to do it too soon and it won't work. So I see Pam and Jim as in a process that wasn't complete until The Job.

Only then were they ready to "happen".

Jul 2nd 2008

Pam never owed Jim anything and Jim certainly didn't owe Pam anything more. But if they wanted to be together, as they surely both did, they owed each other the truth about their feelings. Which is not to say, they could demand of each other the truth. Yikes.

Jul 2nd 2008

They both missed many opportunities and were both at fault for how long it took them to get to each other. I did enjoy watching this story unfold and it sure does give us a lot to talk about. I'm just happy they're happy, now...I'm lame.

Jul 2nd 2008

Ok, demand was the wrong word to use in this context obviously. What I meant was that it doesn't seem unreasonable for Jim to ask her what happened. Of course it would be reasonable for her to wonder how he could just transfer to Stamford without giving her a chance to talk to him.

Jul 2nd 2008 edited

How is it reverting to the 18th century for him to ask what happened?

Well, see, that's different. Sure, he would have had the right to ask...that's not the same as getting all Cro-Magnon and demanding an explanation from her.

But it's still more believable to me that he didn't ask. Think of how many times we saw Jim act like a jerk when he was disappointed in the romance department? At least 4 or 5? And when this happens he tends to pout, feel sorry for himself, and not honestly confront the issue.

This was the Mother of all Heartbreaks, so it doesn't surprise me that he'd be even more Jim-like (in a bad way) than usual.

Jul 2nd 2008

DC, jinx!!

Jul 2nd 2008

I'm just happy they're happy, now...I'm lame.

Add me to the lame club then. I can hardly describe the joy I felt when they got together. I was bawling like a big fat baby during Fun Run when it was revealed to us that they were together.

Jul 2nd 2008

bawling like a big fat baby

That's a great image.

Jul 2nd 2008 edited

But it's still more believable to me that he didn't ask. Think of how many times we saw Jim act like a jerk when he was disappointed in the romance department? At least 4 or 5? And when this happens he tends to pout, feel sorry for himself, and not honestly confront the issue.

Before CN I would agree with you, but afterwards I felt he had already taken the big step of confessing so what did he have to lose at this point? The idea that both of them were miserable for a year because neither would could send an e-mail or just ask what the heck the other was thinking is just too much of a stretch. Stamford isn't that far away and Karen isn't that big of an obstacle.

Also, add me to the lame club although with a bit less crying.

Jul 2nd 2008

Yep. I'm lame dash O. It was fun to get the threads jumping again though. I could talk about the problems of S3 ad nauseam. Good thing S3 was so bad, eh?

Jul 2nd 2008

I'm just happy they're happy

Whenever Pam smiles, I smile. It's a perfect corollary.

Jul 2nd 2008

I could talk about the problems of S3 ad nauseam.

So can I, evidently.

Jul 2nd 2008

I could talk about the problems of S3 ad nauseam. Good thing S3 was so bad, eh?

Yep, I can't help but get sucked back into these debates even though I know there is no way to end them.

Here you go mtt

Jul 2nd 2008

I could talk about the awesomeness of S3 ad nauseam. Good thing S3 was so awesome, eh?

Fixed that for ya. :-)

Here you go mtt

Thanks, dude!

Jul 2nd 2008 edited

I know. You just can't stop me.

It may also have been true if Jim had been able to say more in Booze Cruise.

I agree but I just want to add to this that Jim had to have known, with his wise, intuitive nature, that there was no way Pam would have received well a disclosure of his feelings. That’s why he didn’t say anything, in my opinion, not that he was afraid. Her fiancé was also in the next room. The opportunity was not really there for him.

Perhaps Pam needed Jim to declare his love, then leave, before she could come to realize how much he meant to her?

I think she clearly did.

And maybe Jim had to go through all the shit of trying to move on from Pam before he could realize that no one else was ever going to be able to make him happy?

He didn’t have to go through what he did to know she was the only one, but Pam’s refusal to talk about her feelings (even if they were confused) to him caused him to have to go through it. It was only her brave confession that she broke up with Roy because of him that brought him around to taking one last chance to get her back.

Jul 2nd 2008

S3 ad nauseam

Yeah, most of S3 did make me feel pretty nauseous.

Jul 2nd 2008 edited

It was only her brave confession that she broke up with Roy because of him that brought him around to taking one last chance to get her back.

And only 6-10 episodes late. Uh oh....

Dec 1st 2011

Stanley: I wake up every morning in a bed that's too small, drive my daughter to a school that's too expensive, and then I go to work to a job for which I get paid too little, but on Pretzel Day? Well, I like pretzel day.

Show of hands - who knew that the phrase "pretzel day" came from this episode?

Dec 1st 2011

Pam: [phone rings] Dunder Mifflin.
Jim: Ah, hey.
Pam: Oh my God.
Jim: Hi.
Pam: Hi.
Jim: Sorry, I forgot Kevin's extension. It's a fantasy football thing.
Pam: Oh.
Jim: And I was just going to go through the system cause I didn't think you'd be there. Why, why are you still there?
Pam: I had to work late. Jan's making me keep a log of everything Michael does all day.
Jim: Wow. Do you think you could send me a copy of that?
Pam: Yeah, totally. So...
Jim: So...
Pam: Do you...
Jim: Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Pam: Uh, no, I um. Everything's pretty much the same here.
Jim: Oh, good.
Pam: A little different. What time is it there?
Jim: What time is it here? Um, we're in the same time zone.
Pam: Oh, yeah. Right.
Jim: How far away did you think we were?
Pam: I don't know. It felt far.
Jim: Yeah. I have a question for you.
Pam: What?
Jim: How many words per minute does the average person type?
Pam: I type 90.
Jim: Shut up. Mavis Beacon doesn't even type 90.
Pam: It's true.
Jim: Ok, I said average.
Pam: 70? How many do you type?
Jim: Forget it. I was just about to brag but forget it.
Pam: Come on. Tell me.
Jim: No.
Pam: You have to tell me now.
Jim: 65. Ok, no need to laugh.
Pam: No, it's, that's respectable. Jim: Respectable?

Dec 1st 2011

I knew it was S3, but I could have sworn the episode was called "Pretzel Day".

Dec 1st 2011

There was a lot of good stuff going on in this episode. Dwight and Ryan's sales trip, Michael and Jan and the pretzel and then the phone call. What happened to that show?

Jun 3rd 2013

I like when someone from NA makes a joke on Facebook and only other people from NA get it.

Show of hands - who knew that the phrase "pretzel day" came from this episode?

I had no recollection of what episode it came from.

Jun 3rd 2013

Yeah, me neither.

Jun 3rd 2013

Also, it aired the same night that the Mets were last relevant. Well, not quite, but pretty much. That night sucked.

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