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And, in case I get bored, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
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Dec 21st 2006 edited

Okay, this is now officially mod-approved, so neither KarenM nor I will be getting beat down and have to slink away in shame for this.

Anyway, there seems to be a vocal minority here that loves all things -- or at least some things -- Harry Potter. Seeing as how the level of discussion here is generally much higher than elsewhere around the Interwebs, I don't think it's unreasonable for us to wish to discuss OMG TEH GREATEST BOOK EVAR!!!1! in this forum.

So, discuss.

Just for starters: I think Ginny Weasley is hot. Is that sick?

(Also, mad props to KarenM for the thread title.)

Dec 21st 2006 edited

So now Dwight Future looks like the brave one. Sigh. I guess Jesus would overlook that. But I'm not letting that stand in the way of those mad props. I am so glad to be back on speaking terms with our own chronoambassador. Dinah the Christmas cat is ensconced under the piano roll cabinet but does not seem particularly terrified. It is an auspicious beginning.

I don't think you are sick for thinking Ginny is hot. That fact was shoved down our throats quite dramatically--and she's close to "of age" in the wizarding world. I still don't see her and Harry together, though. It's like Karen and Jim (see? I said we could relate this to the show)... they look right on paper, but it doesn't really jive. Harry just has the hots for having the hots, and watching Ginny strut her stuff with his classmates in his own living room made him want in on the action. Plus it's really the Weasly family he's attracted to.

Frankly, I'm a little disgusted with Ron. I think Harry could do better for a best friend. Ron is not a nice person and he is not nice to Harry. Harry was too unused to having friends that he latched onto the first one, who was happy to latch onto Harry's stardom. I would like to see Harry and Hermione together before Ron and Hermione, but that's not do or die for me. Maybe Harry will do the celibate Jedi thing and save the world.

I would entertain arguments about why Luna Lovegood is better for Ron, and why much of his need for fame (however vicarious) could be met by hanging out with her. I also think she'd do good with the Weaslys, since overentangled family relationships seem to be the norm.

(edited to remove a passive-aggressive point of criticism--thanks, Dwight, for your prompt attention--but about that preposition that's still capitalized... are we following the "words of five letters" rule?)

Dec 21st 2006

chronoambassador

I'm stealing this, too.

And I don't know, I was doing it on the fly, and noticed too late that the caps weren't exactly right.

Dec 21st 2006

Just call it an inside joke in response to the amateur and unprofessional boards out there.

Glad you liked chronoambassador. But what about Luna?

Dec 21st 2006

Thanks for the approval C Z-J! Having a crush on Ginny is perfectly fine, DwightfromtheFuture. Book characters are highly attractive, because for the most part you can imagine them to be just the way you want them to look/act. I've always been fond of the Weasly twins myself. Not to mention a particular mad fan-girl style crush on Oliver Wood from the movies.

I like your idea that Luna would fulfill Ron's need for celebrity, but I think Hermione will be renowned enough once she goes out to conquer the world, one pop quiz at a time. I started out as a Harmony shipper, but I'm completely converted to the R/H & H/G style of thinking now.

I'm just a little peeved off by everyone saying that Harry will die at the end of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. (It feels so good to be able to say the title!) I'm all for characters dying, but honestly I can't see why JKR would do that to the hoardes of nine-year-olds reading.

Favorite book, anyone? I share my opinion with Dwight on this one. PoA has always been at the top of my list. I even saw a Physician's Desk Reference at B&N tonight and pondered if everything would fit. If he used the paperback, he'd be okay.

Dec 21st 2006

Harry and Hermione together

Delusional. ;)

I actually can't see Harry & Hermine as a couple at all. They get on each other's nerves too much, and it would totally melt down in a matter of days. And have you ever noticed how Harry sometimes finds himself at a bit of a loss, or at least a bit bowled over, when it's just him and Hermione together? I don't think their personalities mesh at all well. In fact, it had never occurred to me that they might view each other romantically until Emerson Spartz said one impolitic thing and this whole community came roaring out the woodwork like a wounded elephant. And then there was the badly misplayed dynamic of the fourth movie, and for the first time I could kind of -- kind of -- see where Harry / Hermione partisans were coming from.

In all honesty, I am not what you would call a shipper. I like Ginny a lot; therefore I think it would be neat if she & Harry lived happily ever after. But, as has been pointed out many a time, the books aren't about who dates who. They're about Harry defeating Voldemort. It strikes me as extremely funny that the debate has devolved into a quasi-religious war. I tend to see one side as something closer to correct; what I don't do is get involved, because it's pointless.

Anyway. Post-It Thief, I've been living in terror of the idea that Harry might die at the end of the seventh book since the possibility first dawned on me shortly after I read the fifth book. I don't think the title means squat as regards Harry's living to see the last page of the book. What I do think is that he might be a horcrux (or "whorehouse", as I used to call them, because I could never remember what they were called). That said, I'm not sure he needs to die, even if he is a horcrux. I can forsee a situation in which just part of him (ie, his scar) is a horcrux, and it is somehow magically removed -- possibly with the aid of Snape, possibly as part of a climactic battle, I don't know -- without killing him.

And as to whether Rowling would "do that" to her children readers? I have two words for you: Charlotte's Web.

Since you asked, here are, in order, my favorites:

Goblet of Fire
Prisoner of Azkaban
Half-Blood Prince
Chamber of Secrets
Philosopher's Stone
Order of the Phoenix

Dec 21st 2006

...came roaring out the woodwork like a wounded elephant.

Wow... I'd like to see that!

Dec 21st 2006

Regarding Charlotte's Web, Wilbur was the main character and he lived (I like to believe) a long and fulfilled life beyond the pages of the book. Hermione doesn't need a whiner like Ron dragging her down. Besides, Ron wants to feel superior to people. He'll never feel superior to Hermione. Luna? Well, she's weird and he's from a prominent (if poor) wizard family. But she has notoriety, so he gets to be noticed AND better than her. Not that I think Ron is better than Luna. I like that girl's grit.

I really don't see Harry dying from a plot/construction perspective, either. All the books, with the exception of a few chapters total, have been told from his point of view. How could his death be fit in? The story would end awfully abruptly, with at best some kind of Scooby-Doo ending tacked on with a posthumously discovered letter or secondary character wrap-up. That Dumbledore died doesn't bother me artistically--he's old and mentors are supposed to go before their proteges. But Harry? Unless JKR does it to be perverse, which she could, especially if she's tired of the whole thing and wants to stick it to her fans.

Dec 21st 2006

That Dumbledore died doesn't bother me artistically

Dumbledore is not dead. At least not according to this website.

Maybe it's little more than fantasy (about a fantasy!), but the site actually has some pretty compelling "evidence."

Dec 21st 2006

I think Harry's death would fit beautifully, if handled correctly. And I really do think there are compelling plots that result in his death. I mean, the sacrifice of a hero to save others is so classic it's in the frigging Bible. (It's also in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which is like the Bible of awesome television.)

That said, I'd give him about an 80% chance of survival.

I'll be brief about the other bit, but I'm not going to get involved in a huge debate about this: From a purely literary standpoint, it's been clear that Ron & Hermione were going to be together from the moment it became clear there was going to be more than one book. Harry is a hero, and heroes are, ultimately, alone, going back to Odysseus and stretching through, well, Buffy Summers. At least since book five, and maybe longer, Rowling has been slowly stripping away each of Harry's protectors to leave him progressively more alone. If Harry were to be in love with Hermione, that would give him another more powerful person to protect him when the time came. It makes much more sense that Hermione & Ron would get together, for a couple of reasons, but mostly because it leaves Harry to stand alone against the darkness.

Also, I think Hermione and Ron's personalities mesh a lot better than you seem to think. Ron needs to be ruled with an iron fist. Hermione likes to dominate people. I think this is an excellent blueprint for a relationship. (And some kinky sex, but unlike some people, I don't like to think about Ron & Hermione's sex life.)

Dec 21st 2006

Oh wow, there's a Harry Potter thread now? This will ruin me. I'll have to catch up on the posts later, but I'm a huge Ron fan (don't ask me why) and I think that my favorite books would have to be Prisoner of Azkaban and The Half-Blood Prince.

Is it pathetic that I actually cried (maybe wept would be the better term) when Dumbledore died?

Also, any GoodSnape/EvilSnape theories? I'm completely on the GoodSnape front. I'm of sound opinion that when Dumbledore says "Please Severus" right before Snape kills him that he isn't begging for his life (that wizard is NOT one to beg) but he is asking Snape to kill him, to go through with a plan they've had all along.

Dec 21st 2006

(It's also in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which is like the Bible of awesome television.)

Umm, DwightfromtheFuture? You're aiding my creepy ever-growing crush on you. Sorry if that's, weird for you to hear.

Dec 21st 2006

Yeah, a HP thread in an Office forum! It's like the Perfect Storm...

How come there's been no mention of the recently announced Book 7 title in this thread yet? Is it considered "spoilerish?" Because I have some theories I would love to discuss... :o)

Dumbledore is not dead. At least not according to this website. Maybe it's little more than fantasy (about a fantasy!), but the site actually has some pretty compelling "evidence."

Too bad JK Rowling debunked that theory in an interview. Dumbles is dead ya'll. If I can find the link to the JKR interview I will post it.

Dec 21st 2006

Oh, and Mozart's Friend, I agree with you on this point:

Also, any GoodSnape/EvilSnape theories? I'm completely on the GoodSnape front. I'm of sound opinion that when Dumbledore says "Please Severus" right before Snape kills him that he isn't begging for his life (that wizard is NOT one to beg) but he is asking Snape to kill him, to go through with a plan they've had all along.

I've hemmed and hawed about good Snape vs. evil Snape, but the fact that Dumbledore isn't a wizard who begs and certainly isn't afraid of death (see Book 1), makes me lean toward good Snape. Or at least not-so-evil Snape. :o)

Dec 21st 2006 edited

Also, any GoodSnape/EvilSnape theories? I'm completely on the GoodSnape front.

Yeah, Snape's not bad. I believe Snape will sacrifice his life for Harry, proving once and for all he's a goodie. I also believe

he is asking Snape to kill him, to go through with a plan they've had all along.

I hate to sound like an ad for the site, but check out the link I posted upthread. That might just convince you Snape's intentions aren't all that bad.

Dec 21st 2006

Here's the link I was talking about above where JKR confirms that Dumbledore is, in fact, dead.

Dumbledore is really dead

Now that doesn't mean we won't seem him in some form ... pensieve, paintings, chocolate frog cards... :o) And Fawkes probably has something to do with us "seeing" Dumbledore again, too.

Dec 22nd 2006

pensieve, paintings, chocolate frog cards

The frog cards hadn't occurred to me before. I've been assuming, however, that Dumbledore's painting, and probably a pensieve version of him, was going to play a pivotal, if not large, part in Book 7. (It's going to be a while before I get used to calling it Deathly Hallows.)

That said, I was pretty sure that a painting of Sirius was going to show up at Grimmauld Place in Half-Blood Prince, and I was very wrong about that. So who knows.

I just have this feeling that we haven't seen the last of Dumbledore or Sirius. I don't know what it is.

I'm also almost certain that Remus Black either:

  1. May yet be alive; or,

  2. Did not die when Sirius & Lupin thought he did.

There are lots of reasons to think that RAB is Remus Black, not least that Rowling herself gave a sort of non-denial denial, to quote All the President's Men, to a direct question on the subject.

Dec 22nd 2006 edited

Regarding Charlotte's Web, Wilbur was the main character and he lived

Yeah, Charlotte wasn't the main character, but her death may be the brutal-uh-es-est in the history of American literature. I admit to being a sucker who cried at The English Patient and even the episodes of Angel during which Fred died, but I bawl like a little baby at the end of Charlotte's Web. She died alone. I can't imagine a situation in which Harry's death is any more horrible than Charlotte's, at least to me.

Dec 22nd 2006

Yay! I just signed on here this morning after waking up to see if this happened after I went to bed last night...and it did! Unfortunately, I can't read the posts or comment right now b/c I have to go to work, but I'll be back, trust me! Just wanted to express my happiness.

Dec 22nd 2006

My order of books: Goblet of Fire Half-Blood Prince Philosopher's Stone Prisoner of Azkaban Chamber of Secrets Order of the Phoenix

I am very afraid of what the combo of HP and the Office at the place will do to my work.
My thoughts: *I am on the Good Snape team, he could have easily killed Harry at the end of VI with no problem.
*I think that the Weasly clan is going to be in a very good place at the end of VII (Like Samwise Gamgee), so I think a lot of Ron's self esteem problems will clear up and he and Hermione will live happily ever after. * Remus Black is as good as I have heard for being the wizard trying to take on He Who Must Not Be Named, Harry clearly can't do it himself, same wands or not.

Questions *Do you think there will be Quidditch in VII or is it going to be all serious all the time? *Hagrid and Mme Maxim - is there a future there, I say yes *What is the best wine to have with a rocquefort

Dec 22nd 2006

My theories: Snape is not evil. In fact I stand firmly with the theorists that say Snape was in love with Lily Potter. THAT's what convinced Dumbledore that Snape had changed. Snape betrayed the Death Eaters once he found out it was the Potters that Voldemort was targeting. He sure as hell didn't give a damn about James. That leaves Lily. He's one of the people who commented on Harry having Lily's eyes. I'm NOT convinced by the pensieve scene where he calls her a mudblood. I'm sure he wished he didn't love her, but I think he did. I agree that Dumbledore was NOT begging for his life. He was telling Snape to go through with the plan. Earlier in the book Snape and Dumbledore were arguing about Snape not wanting to do something. I think killing Dumbles was it. I can't remember who said it in these boards earlier but Snape being evil would undo a lot of Dumbledore's wisdom. I think once all is said and done these books will be Snape's story just as much as they are Harry's.

Dumbledore? Dead. But I think Fawkes will play a role in Dumbledore influencing things from beyond the grave. Maybe some pensieve action as well.

Sirius? Dead? I'm on the fence. If we follow comic book logic there was no body. But I don't know if we can apply comic book logic to HP. Nobody really seems to know what happens behind that screen. I'm leaning towards alive.

I figured Harry and Ginny would eventually get together when she started being all crushy on him. I think they're good for each other. Ginny's really cool. And hot. But I've ALWAYS had a thing for redheads. I agree with everything everyone said about why Harry and Hermione couldn't be together. I also love the arc of the relationship between Ron and Hermione.

Ron is stubborn, but I don't think he's a bad guy. He's a very loyal friend even when he's doing his best not to be your friend. I don't think Ron craves fame or latches on to Harry's fame. He HATES being overshadowed by his brothers and by Harry. I think it's a testiment to Ron's loyalty that he's still Harry's friend despite having to live in his shadow. In almost any argument between Harry and someone else, Ron ALWAYS sided with Harry no matter what. This changed, however, once it became apparent that Hermionald (Ronmione? Ugh. I hate myself) was in the works. He started siding with Hermione on some things. But for the most part he's still very bros before hoes.

Dec 22nd 2006

In fact I stand firmly with the theorists that say Snape was in love with Lily Potter.

Agreed. That's why he's been so tough on Harry from the beginning: he looks exactly like his father. The one that had Lily's heart. Aw, maybe that makes Snape kind of like the HP "Jim."
I love Snape and, to digress for a moment into the movie series, I think Alan Rickman was the perfect choice to play him. He is such a stand-out actor. In fact, its my family tradition that we watch Die Hard every Christmas eve!

Dec 22nd 2006

I think Alan Rickman was the perfect choice to play him. He is such a stand-out actor.

Hell yes! In the PofA movie, when they go to the Shrieking Shack and we see Alan Rickman, Gary Oldman, and David Thewlis all on the same screen I about messed myself.

Dec 22nd 2006

Here's something weird for you Big Lebowski fans to think of: David Thewlis (Lupin) played Knox Harrington, the twittering "video artist" who was Maude's friend.

Dec 22nd 2006

I wonder about those pensieves. Do they portray truth or memories? I know you can watch a memory like a TV show, but is the magic of it all that the pensieve represents what happens or just what the rememberer remembers happening? The two don't have to be the same.

Snape may have been in love with Lily in high school, but I'm wondering what went on between him and Draco's mother. She called him some kind of emotional debt from him when she asked him to made an unbreakable bond on Draco's behalf.

I agree that the Weasleys are very much on the up and up. Left to their own devices, look how upwardly mobile the children are. They do interesting, glamorous things. Even Percy has placed himself well in the government. But Ron? His inferiority complex isn't about his family's position... it's about his position in his family. He's the nothing one. He doesn't have to be, but he doesn't seem to have any drive. To his credit, he doesn't display the crab mentality and actually seems to enjoy his siblings' success rather than try to pull them down to his level. But I just can't shake my dislike for him. Rereads make it worse. Perhaps its a high school thing. Maybe he's self-loathing and closeted and things will work themselves out. (I don't get that vibe but who knows.) He needs to get an apartment on his own and be self-reliant for a while.

I know they are books for children but it bothers me that all the marriages portrayed in the magic world seem to be between high school sweethearts. Is the wizarding world extra magical and wonderful?

Dec 22nd 2006 edited

Oh, I am perfectly aware that Knox Harrington, with the cleft asshole, is Lupin's alter ego. It added a whole new dimension to the POA movie. Made me wonder what was really going on in the Shrieking Shack. Perhaps it was just one long phone call from Cassandra about Bernaldi.

Dec 22nd 2006

Questions *Do you think there will be Quidditch in VII or is it going to be all serious all the time?

I think Quidditch is done, Bearded Fear. JKR has said in interviews that she was having a hard time coming up with fresh ideas for it, anyway. (Although I think having Luna do the commentary last time was awesome.)

I am excited that we have a title for book 7. Here's some stuff I found online regarding Hallows...

According to Arthurian legend, there are four Hallows, and they are as follows:

The Cup or Chalice
The Baton or Wand
The Sword or Dagger
The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

This easily connects Hallows to the remaining Horcruxes:

Cup belonging to Hogwarts founder Helga Hufflepuff (known Horcrux)
Baton or Wand belonging to Hogwarts founder Rowena Ravenclaw (unknown item…)
Sword or Dagger belonging to Hogwarts founder Godric Gryffindor (we know he has a sword – see Book 2 – but Dumbledore doesn’t seem to think it’s a Horcrux. He could be wrong though)
Pentacle (locket) belonging to Hogwarts founder Salazar Slytherin (known Horcrux)

Ok... sorry for the long post. Any other Deathly Hallows theories??

Dec 22nd 2006

I wonder about those pensieves. Do they portray truth or memories?

KarenM, JKR has said (in her Mugglenet interview with Emerson & Melissa) that pensieves portray the truth. They let you see things without your own perceptions clouding them up.

Dec 22nd 2006

Well, the locket isn't deadly, because it is neither what killed Dumbledore nor blackened his hand, and I presume that whoever took it (RAB) survived, at least for a little while. The sword of Gryffindor helps Harry, and I think the title probably refers to something that puts Harry in mortal peril.

I wonder if the deathly hallow is what permanently injured Dumbledore. We never did get that story.

And looking into modern mythical tales to find direction about whether or not Harry dies, well, neither Luke Skywalker nor Frodo do. I'll go along with Harry ending up alone, though.

I don't think Hermione would need someone to boss around if she were spending time with mental equals. Again, she's another girl who will benefit from graduation. She's sort of spinning her wheels at Hogwarts, despite all her attempts to self-educate. You can only go so far.

Dec 22nd 2006 edited

JKR has said (in her Mugglenet interview with Emerson & Melissa) that pensieves portray the truth.

Perhaps it's my long, extended study of dead authors that influences my preferences, but I hate having to consider what live authors tell us about works in progress. I wish JKR would keep her mouth shut and not eliminate literary elements by making definitive statements. I know better than to open a Harry Potter Tirade thread so I'll put it here and deal with it. The books would be better if we were allowed to draw our own conclusions based on what she prints.

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