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3.18 The Negotiation
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Apr 6th 2007

That would be called homosexuwool.

You're a great American. Thank you for that.

Apr 6th 2007

I actually thought Jim looked adorable last night.

Me, too. I don't know if it was a wig, but I didn't notice anything odd about his hair.

And I loved the breakroom scene. Jim's reaction was totally believable to me. In a similar situation, I could see myself being snarky, standoffish, and sarcastic, so I can't fault him for that. I'm glad to see him sticking to his new "I will not be your go-to guy for when you feel bad" stance with Pam. It's about time one of them got truly angry about something, anyway. Even if it was passive-aggressive on Jim's part, at least it was something, and more emotion than has previously been demonstrated here. Plus, Pam had her chance - again - to say how she felt in the breakroom, and I almost thought she was going to. But she didn't. Say what you will about Jim not seizing his opportunity on the boat deck during the Booze Cruise; Pam has had that same opportunity multiple times over this season, and she has chosen to pass it up every single time.

Apr 6th 2007

Has no one mentioned this yet? Really?

Usher Jennifer Hudson Kapoor.

Apr 6th 2007 edited

Daryl! Daryl! Daryl!

Is Denis Denman gone for good? As much as Roy deserves to be gone, I love Denis, he adds some good weight to the show. Are they going to follow him for a bit (like when Dwight went to Staples)? It's just sad to think a member of the original cast is gone, even if it is Roy.

And since I missed the first 11 minutes, I was kind of with Angela begging to know what happened...but for an all-together different reason. Jim seems more resolved in his Pam issues, which I really respect. But every time Karen tells him to get back to work, I stop feeling sorry for her and want them to break up. He's there to pull pranks, not sell paper ;). Loved. That. Episode.

Usher Jennifer Hudson Kapoor

I say it should be Beyonce, whether or not it's a boy or a girl :)

Apr 6th 2007

I really think that his opinion of Pam has really plummeted over the season, and especially after Pam and Roy hooked back up.

I think that's really true, and you only have to think about the way Jim chatted with Pam at Phyllis' wedding (cute dancing!), and then looked over at her when he was dancing with Karen. Contrast that with the breakroom scene. Ugh.

I liked this episode very much.

Apr 6th 2007

I think i liked pam best this season ( i still like pam the whole time but i know what you guys mean) during benihanna christmas when here and karen were all chummy, i like that.

Usher Jennifer Hudson Kapoor.

i noticed to...why are ryan and kelly talking about baby names anyway...?????

Apr 6th 2007

Mind if I join in? I thought it was really cool that Ryan and Kelly AND Dwight and Angela kissed last night! Really suprising, but way cool!! I just do not like Karen, and I keep getting the feeling Jim doesn't really either.......

Apr 6th 2007

Alright...I'm rubbing my hands together, about to defend my girl Pam. ;)

First of all, let me just say this - she is pathetic, but I don't think it's an unrealistic pathetic. Hasn't anyone ever had a friend who's gone through a huge life change, or a really hard few months, and it puts them seriously down in the dumps? Makes them make bad decisions? Makes them act differently than they normally would? Makes you want to slap them so they snap out of it, but you can't because you don't understand what they're going through? I have a friend going through something similar right now, and I can't believe people are throwing around "Pam sucks" and "I dislike Pam more and more" and comments like that. I've said it before, but I can totally see Pam existing in real life, flaws and all, and I definitely wouldn't despise her.

Yes, she IS frustrating right now...but she's supposed to be. She's frustrated with herself. I too wish that the writers would hurry up and get her out of this funk, but it's not always easy to stop stepping in crap in life, either. You make one mistake, then another. Then you feel like you can't do anything right. Each time, your self-esteem goes down a few more notches until finally you just figure you need to do whatever is going to make you feel better in that moment...or you need to do something to get yourself back to the place you were at BEFORE everything started going downhill (hence Pam getting back with Roy). I've been here before. It's horrible. Hasn't anyone else?

And this:

Plus, Pam had her chance - again - to say how she felt in the breakroom, and I almost thought she was going to. But she didn't.

She had a chance, really? Because I saw her trying to talk to the back of Jim's head while he pointedly ignored her. Then I saw her call him back into the room after taking his little zinger about Roy up the ass, and she finally got him to look at her as she earnestly told him one more time (no trying to make light of it) how sorry she was. Maybe she was leading up to something, but he interrupted with the "Oh, no no, yeah, that's cool" brushoff. I don't think that every time she has a moment alone with Jim, it's a 'chance' to spill her guts. Why on earth would anyone choose THAT moment to do this?

Apr 6th 2007

were those clever references back to season 2 or lazy ways to get laughs?

I've been wondering about the motivation behind this too. It's sort of nice when they call back to earlier classic moments, but after a while it feels a little distracting.

And I'm fine with begrudging Jim his bitterness and Pam her timidity. They're both pretty beaten down, and I don't blame them for their responses.

I'm curious about Jim's hair too. I didn't notice anything at the time.

Apr 6th 2007

I'm curious about Jim's hair too. I didn't notice anything at the time.

Strange, cuz the first thing I noticed in this episode was Jim's hair. Moreover, Jim himself really. He was so weird this episode to me. I think the hair is what did it though, cuz it didn't seem to be that messy look that he usually has, but instead it just looks kind of fake. Of course, it is fake since he shaved his head, right? I'm also chalking up the bags under the eyes to JK's shooting schedule, since it didn't really have anything to do with the episode. Not that I remember anyway.

Even though I watched the whole time, I didn't really catch a lot of the details that others have picked up. I guess I was just so excited that The Office is finally back on at all that I didn't really absorb anything beyond the main storylines. Rewatch commencing.

Apr 6th 2007

Why on earth would anyone choose THAT moment to do this?

My first reaction was much more akin to LT's, right down to actually thinking she was about to do it when she called Jim back into the room, but the more I think about it, the more I come around to this point of view. Technically, every moment that goes by is a missed opportunity for her to call Jim off to some quiet spot and lay it all on the line. But it's hardly fair to expect it to play out like that, and not fair at all to expect her to spill her guts when it seems that Jim's fairly busy hating them.

Apr 6th 2007

This isn't really all that relevant or anything, but what you mean is that you only wear men's clothes. The majority of transvestites are heterosexual.

I was trying to play off the joke that Michael said his suit was bisexual. That's all I meant by that comment.

Usher Jennifer Hudson Kapoor

Does that mean Ryan's taking her last name if they get married? I also noticed them mauling each other in the background of Toby's talking head. It was pretty graphic, he was all over the junk in the trunk.

were those clever references back to season 2 or lazy ways to get laughs?

In my opinion they're clever, I love remembering great moments of the past.

I'll defend Pam to the end, but I really wish she would have been direct with Roy in the coffee shop and told him the wedding cancellation had more to do with him being an insensitive, inattentive lout than anything Jim did. None of the "There were lots of reasons", "I don't get you/I know" beating around the bush. Another opportunity the writers missed to strengthen her character.

Apr 6th 2007 edited

It's sort of nice when they call back to earlier classic moments, but after a while it feels a little distracting.

Well, the hereos bit was brief enough that I think it was just a nice throwback. As for Darryl, his "I want him to get the raise, I just can't help myself" was a new joke on top of the old joke, and I thought it was the funniest part.

Also, I just want to state that I do not think Jim and Karen are fine. She was clearly not happy with him in this episode, and I think she's finally put all the pieces together. Her talking head about which "reaction" Jim hated more was a great window into that.

ETA: Oh, and Kelly's baby name? Did she really say Hudson? ('cause that's what I thought I heard too.) Stanley's last name?

Apr 6th 2007

I'll defend Pam to the end, but I really wish she would have been direct with Roy in the coffee shop and told him the wedding cancellation had more to do with him being an insensitive, inattentive lout than anything Jim did. None of the "There were lots of reasons", "I don't get you/I know" beating around the bush. Another opportunity the writers missed to strengthen her character.

In a way, I think that was a strengthening of her character, if gradually. People keep seeming to want Pam to suddenly be extremely extroverted and what not, but that wouldn't be true to the character thus far. It would be like those totally fake movie "makeover" scenes where a previously nerdy character comes out of her shell as a smokin' hot babe. I'm not saying that Pam shouldn't be a smokin' hot babe, but she's not the same wallflower personality she was at the beginning.

I loved how they handled the fallout from Roy's attack: I totally buy him trying to apologize to Jim, even if it seemed not in keeping with his character. Is Roy going to evolve into the kind of guy Pam should be with? No, but I saw his softer side (even if it might've been a ploy, which I don't necessarily buy) when he started prodding Pam about her feelings for Jim. Very reminiscent of Michael and Jim in "Booze Cruise" (the least likely person gives you the best advice possible). I don't think Pam will go down the Roy road of rage-fueled relationships again, but it would be wrong for her to totally dismiss what he says about her feelings for Jim.

Thankfully the confrontation became comedy and not drama, with Dwight saving the day. I loved how he ended up getting pepper spray in his eyes too (notice how Jim and Pam did as well, but not Karen? Symbolism of love being blinding, eh?)

Apr 6th 2007

Another opportunity the writers missed to strengthen her character.

That's fair.

Her talking head about which "reaction" Jim hated more was a great window into that.

I hadn't thought about that.

Apr 6th 2007

Technically, every moment that goes by is a missed opportunity for her to call Jim off to some quiet spot and lay it all on the line. But it's hardly fair to expect it to play out like that, and not fair at all to expect her to spill her guts when it seems that Jim's fairly busy hating them.

Well said, and also I feel like people think it should be easier for Pam to tell Jim how she feels because of the fact that he's already confessed his own love to her. BUT...that was a long time ago. Even though WE know that Jim isn't over her, it's not at all obvious from her point of view. In fact, it's even worse for her because in all the three or four years of missed opportunities that Jim let slip by while he pretended to be Pam's friend (pre-Casino Night), Pam never froze him out or denied him her friendship. Watching Pam go through this is, for me, pure torture and inspires 80% heartfelt sympathy, 20% frustration.

Apr 6th 2007

It would be like those totally fake movie "makeover" scenes where a previously nerdy character comes out of her shell as a smokin' hot babe.

I think they should do it. Montage to 80s music! I think they should use "This is the Day" by The The. Maybe "Dancing Queen".

I was trying to play off the joke that Michael said his suit was bisexual.

Oh. I'd forgotten about that.

Stanley's last name?

Yeah, she said Hudson, but she was referring to Jennifer Hudson, who was famous for some reason and then won an Oscar for a movie I didn't see.

Apr 6th 2007

Daryl: Toby, you comfortable?

Toby: No.

The whole road trip thing to NY was priceless. I love that they put a new combo of characters together.

Oh, and what the heck do people mean about a wig?! How are people getting that Jim was wearing a wig?! I am so confused. I just can't understand how people are reading so much into a hairstyle.

Why on earth would anyone choose THAT moment to do this?

Well, ideally they wouldn't because they wouldn't have let it come to this point in the first place.

Apr 6th 2007

One more JAM comment (until next week, natch)...

These two were friends for THREE YEARS - best friends, by their own admissions in several THs - and now the dynamic has shifted because Jim shared his feelings and Pam, out of a sense of duty to Roy at the time, didn't express that she felt the same way (even though we ALL know she had to...come on). Their friendship isn't where it used to be and so it's going to take a while to build back the level of intimacy they had before The Confession of Love. And here's the kicker: they may never get back to that BFF place they were before Casino Night. And...they may not even end up together as a couple, or if they do, it might not work out.

As a JAM lover, my own postulation here is freaking me out. A little. :)

Apr 6th 2007

Yeah, she said Hudson, but she was referring to Jennifer Hudson, who was famous for some reason and then won an Oscar for a movie I didn't see.

Ahh, ok, that makes sense.

And for the record, I don't usually pay a lot of attention to Jim's hair, but I did notice that it looked, well, different.

Apr 6th 2007 edited

I noticed it in the bathroom scene. It looked unwashed, and he looked kind of wan and frail. I suppose, if a gigantic man tries to attack you, even if he is thwarted by pepper spray, you might spend the next couple of days sleeping poorly and looking over your shoulder.

And I'll say this again: Anybody who seriously thinks that Jim & Pam aren't going to end up together is way overthinking the situation. The chances of that are about the same as the chances of yours truly boarding the space shuttle sometime soon.

Apr 6th 2007 edited

Well, ideally they wouldn't because they wouldn't have let it come to this point in the first place.

Which is Jim's fault as well. But I agree with you, that is the ideal solution. ;)

So, now who knows about Dwight and Angela? Just Jim and Pam? Hmm...

And I'll say this again: Anybody who seriously thinks that Jim & Pam aren't going to end up together is way overthinking the situation. The chances of that are about the same as the chances of yours truly boarding the space shuttle sometime soon.

And I totally agree with this as well. I'm in an agreeable mood today! :)

Apr 6th 2007

Is Denis Denman gone for good? As much as Roy deserves to be gone, I love Denis, he adds some good weight to the show.

David Denman

Apr 6th 2007

I noticed Jim's hair right off the bat, as well, and also the fact that he just didn't look good...not like himself somehow. Hearing now that it was a wig and he was filming another movie - it does add up. Hopefully that look doesn't continue through the rest of the coming episodes.

I agree about Karen's talking head of "I don't know which one Jim hated more." Look at her face - she wasn't trying to be funny. She really meant it. I think they're more comfortable with each other than before, but it doesn't seem like they like the same things at all. What do they really have in common?

I loved Michaels face right before, "I'm declining to speak first." He kept looking at the camera, so satisfied with himself. Classic Michael. And his negotiations with Jan - how did he get so far at DM without any sense in his head? She clearly says not to bring their relationship into the negotiations, and then that's all he does. And who didn't love Toby's, "I'm just taking notes for the deposition," after being called a perv again! Toby rocked in this one, but then I always love that guy.

When Kelly and Ryan were making out, it seemed more like Ryan was being mauled and didn't know where to put his hands - he clearly didn't want them on her, while she couldn't stop grabbing him. I always wonder where they'll end up, but I'm enjoying the R/K ride.

Jam...yowsa. I'm trying to get inside of why he treated her that way in the lunch room. I know he's upset and why he's upset and how he's been sucker punched before, but that felt so out of left field. For her to apologize and him to throw "you two will find your way back to each other" comment at her seemed cruel. But I suppose it must be hard to be trying to move forward and have all of this hit you AGAIN. It doesn't seem to stop or go away, and that must be frustrating. As for Pam - did you see her face when she was watching Jim and Karen's discussion during the cold open? She doesn't even try to hide it anymore. Also, at first I was annoyed with her for agreeing to meet with Roy, but after the coffee scene, I was relieved that they gave it healthy closure. They both needed to say a few things, and he needed to hear that it wasn't just about Jim. I definitely think that chapter is closed.

Apr 6th 2007

I saw the perpetrator advance towards the victim at a high rate of speed...

I love Dwight's "police-speak" report to Toby. The man so wishes he were still a volunteer Lackawanna County sheriff's deputy.

But this was Toby's episode. Go Toby!

Apr 6th 2007 edited

By the way, my favorite line of the entire episode?

"It's been a weird day. I accidentally cross-dressed..."

The look on Jan's face says it all. Is it wrong that I really love those two together and actually think they might be good for each other? Seriously, they pull off the couple thing and manage to be SO funny in the meantime.

If this show has to become 'coupled' up, I'd kind of like to see everyone's office dynamics. Here we have Dwight and Angela jumping each other over an HR incident report after hours, Michael and Jan bringing their sex life into their salary negotiations, Ryan and Kelly alternately fighting and making out like teenagers in the middle of the day...what next? Well, clearly...can I say I think it's hilarious that all these couples are seemingly going strong, but Jim and Pam (THE supercouple) have not gotten it together yet?? Well, not hilarious. Sad.

But just more evidence to the fact that when they actually do, it will still be a hilarious show. Can you imagine a date night with Michael/Jan and Jim/Pam? Whoa. ;)

Apr 6th 2007

He kept looking at the camera, so satisfied with himself.

It seemed to me that characters interacted with the camera more often in this episode than in other S3 episodes. Michael did it throughout his negotiations and Pam & Roy did it a couple times each in the coffee shop.

Also, at first I was annoyed with her for agreeing to meet with Roy, but after the coffee scene, I was relieved that they gave it healthy closure.

Was anyone else cringing at the beginning of the scene, thinking she might go back to him again?

They both needed to say a few things, and he needed to hear that it wasn't just about Jim.

But I still don't think Roy realizes it's not just about Jim, because Pam kept it cryptic and didn't tell him directly about his inattentiveness and insensitivity. Roy's not a guy that understands subtlety.

Apr 6th 2007

But I still don't think Roy realizes it's not just about Jim, because Pam kept it cryptic and didn't tell him directly about his inattentiveness and insensitivity. Roy's not a guy that understands subtlety.

Jenna Loves Josh, I couldn't agree with you more. My buddy and I were arguing this point last night during the show and I told him that Roy just DOESN'T GET IT...just like he doesn't 'get' Pam and her needs.

Apr 6th 2007

I was certainly cringing at the thought; in fact, I shouted, "Don't you * dare!" It was directed more at the writers, though. ; ) Do you think it was necessary for Pam to explain to Roy the "other" reasons? I don't think it's relevant at this point, unless it's to develop Pam's acceptance of her own feelings.

Apr 6th 2007 edited

he just didn't look good...not like himself somehow.

Jim really wasn't himself in this episode. I don't know if the hair thing was coincidental, but it played out as a visualization of the way he was acting. He was pretty much obviously uncomfortable with everything around him. He'd just been attacked. His girlfriend was clearly upset with him. His relationship with Dwight was completely upside down. And worst of all, the tension between him and Pam went to DEFCON 2. His comment to Pam in the breakroom was mean-spirited, and that's the first I've felt that way about any of his actions this season. It was understandable though, and I think clearly out of frustration. He's been keeping a wall between himself and Pam since The Return, and especially since Phyllis' Wedding, and this just made him build it up so high that it's becoming unstable.

ETA:

But I still don't think Roy realizes it's not just about Jim, because Pam kept it cryptic and didn't tell him directly about his inattentiveness and insensitivity. Roy's not a guy that understands subtlety.

See, I felt that when Pam said "we've both made some bad choices," it was a revelation moment for him that they aren't going to work out. Maybe he doesn't understand it, but I think he knows it.

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