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4.08 The Deposition
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Nov 16th 2007

Hmm...

Well, I didn't slap you, but I couldn't immediately come up with a snappy and scathing retort, so my stunned silence gives you the chance to say something else while you have my attention.

Nov 16th 2007

I was expecting a putdown comparing my science to Intelligent Design. Maybe your hesitation means your retort is slowly evolving into some serious, Kapoor-level smack.

Nov 16th 2007

The confidence he displays belies the lack of confidence just below the surface because he knows what he's about.

Huh. I've always found Michael to be one of the most self-unaware characters ever. And oddly enough, I find that endearing and charming. Can't figure that one out at all. People I work with who are not self-aware drive me bonkers. Hope they aren't reading this.

The element of Steve Carell's performance that knocked me out in Season One was the amount of fear in his eyes.

Ah, this is a brilliant statement. But I always thought the fear was related to not fitting in, not being liked, and never being loved.

...otherwise why would deal-no deal and earl still be on air?

Generally, I would agree with this. "Earl" is killing time til 8 p.m. Central for me. But last night, I could have kissed Darrell as he explained to someone (RayRay? I don't care enough to remember) the difference between a "moot point" and a "mute point". That's probably my #1 pet peeve, and isn't there a thread here somewhere that I can record that again??

I have to say, I have replayed Toby's laughter a bunch of times. Loved. It.

Nov 16th 2007

Hope they aren't reading this.

They'll just think you're talking about someone else.

Nov 16th 2007

I was expecting a putdown comparing my science to Intelligent Design.

Comparing your science to Intelligent Design? No, not intelligent design.

See, you should have said something comparing me to Tina Fey or referring to the show, and I would have totally sat down at the bar with you, provided you cleared me a seat. But your next line set yourself up for a dismissal. Sorry.

Nov 16th 2007

You just got Kar-dogged, bro!

Nov 16th 2007

They'll just think you're talking about someone else.

The second brilliant comment on just one page of NA. I feel blessed. Happy Friday, DftF!

Nov 16th 2007

But I always thought the fear was related to not fitting in, not being liked, and never being loved.

I see that as related to his performance as regional manager. Maybe being The World's Best Boss would get his branch to love him the way his stepdad and schoolmates never did. Trying harder to be that hilarious buddy-boss will win them over...next time. He's failing as a boss, and as an employee, and as a friend.

I have always seen Carell's characterization of the regional manager as more tragic than what Ricky Gervais developed. David Brent had plenty of insecurities, but he was often breezy about his incompetence. Michael Scott's deer-in-the-headlights gaze indicates a terror at work, and I see him as desperate to flee that terror through jokes, magic, or any prop he can find. The fear was toned down a little in Season Two as we discovered Michael actually did some things (the sale at Chili's, the love-life advice in Booze Cruise) well, but I always sense a realization of his own failings is at the heart of the character.

The Deposition focused Michael's superiors and girlfriend on his inadequacies, and the episode was made by his reactions to their criticism. If this is the last episode of Season Four, it went out with a superb Carell performance.

I agree with the compliments for the character of David Wallace. He was merciful and kind when no one (well, no one who Michael is willing to listen to) else was willing to extend a hand. Maybe when the program returns we will see David and Michael have some interesting conversations about Ryan.

Nov 16th 2007

Comparing your science to Intelligent Design? No, not intelligent design.

Perfect!

See, you should have said something comparing me to Tina Fey or referring to the show, and I would have totally sat down at the bar with you, provided you cleared me a seat. But your next line set yourself up for a dismissal. Sorry.

My line turned out a lemon. Isn't it always the case?

Nov 16th 2007

And if you followed that up with a lemondrop cocktail, you'd probably have a pretty good shot.

Nov 16th 2007

Tracy also told a pigeon to have some self-respect and stop eating people's discarded french fries.

You could try that line.

Nov 16th 2007

Tracy also told a pigeon to have some self-respect and stop eating people's discarded french fries.

It is good nutritional advice.

When I think of 30 Rock and dating these days, I can't help but think of Pete, Paula, and the pop tart. Maybe we should end this digression now.

Nov 16th 2007

What do you do with the pop tart?!?!

Nov 16th 2007

I thought they were going to do something with the maple syrup, like Pete's wife naked in the closet with a box of Eggos.

Nov 16th 2007 edited

Tracy also told a pigeon to have some self-respect and stop eating people's discarded french fries.

Okay, that reminded me of this. The kid in the red coat is my youngest brother.

WARNING: Serious language ahead.

Nov 16th 2007

What is the proper way to eat a fry, I wonder?

Nov 16th 2007

Are they doing a sequel, because I'm curious now. How do you eat fries?

Nov 16th 2007

No, that's not staged. Those guys are actally like that.

I haven't asked Alex how to eat a fry yet.

Nov 16th 2007

When I realized that, instead, the story was just going to be, hey, these girls can't play ping-pong, ha-ha, it was disappointing and felt generic. I like little surprises, like Kevin sinking all those 3-pointers.

I thought it was a great way to end it because...in the end they were fighting about something that neither of them could do, and the guys who could actually play, didn't care enough to fight about it, they just wanted to play.

Nov 17th 2007 edited

So many insightful comments and perceptions on the characters of Michael & Jan.. Kudos to Science, 2-Hole Punch Jim, Pamcasso, Rockin' Andy, Lemoñadé, BTF, all the Future Dwights, Griefbone, Brian, KarenX, etc etc etc...

Okay, my two cents in brief:

  • Jan makes a critical mistake in her manipulation of Michael. Jan (the character, not the brilliant Melora H) lacks integrity, something which she knows Michael, for all his inane quirks, has at the core of his character. While drawn to his sincerity, she seems simultaneously repulsed by Michael's child-like innocence. Her misstep comes when she tries to over-manage the delivery of his deposition and attempts to script and coach his statement. Granted Michael is a wildcard, but when given the space to be himself, TWSS and all, Michael has shown that he can deliver a surprisingly potent and convincing turn, as he did in S2's The Client.. That day, Jan tried to control that situation but then flabbergastingly gave Michael the floor and was blown away when he eventually delivered.... Here, an Alpha-Female Jan attempts to control the Michael-card, which this time proves to be a disaster.. A sincerely delivered deposition can be a powerful piece of evidence. Thus, trial lawyers normally know when to let certain witnesses have breathing room when making their statements.. One would think that if anyone should know this about Michael it would be Jan. However, she makes this and other miscalculations in preparing for her case... Not only is the basis of her suit on a nebulus if not questionable foundation, she throws her key witness under the bus. Thinking that the stolen diary was her ace-in-the-hole, she abondons any sense of loyalty to or respect for Michael. Jan is out of touch with reality and believes that she can control it all. Pursuing the $4mm judgement at all costs shows the bitterness and self-loathing to which Jan has succumbed. For us, Jan's inner conflict over her love/hate relationship with Michael is painfully irresistable. The dark beauty and depth of Jan's self-centeredness and despair seems to have finally blossomed. Melora H plays this role with such multi-layered nuance and irony, its a travesty that her name has not been mentioned for any of the industry's supporting actress awards.

  • Michael recognizes that he was used by Jan.. diary, coaching, performance review, public humiliation and all. Michael seems to finally realize that Jan is not going to back him in any trenches, and will certainly not give him the unconditional acceptance and love that he wants. The key moment of epiphary (at least to me) is when Michael chooses to stay loyal to DM, thus making a calculated move to make a corporate ally of Wallace. While certainly sincere in his statements, Michael seems to see the writing on the wall and chooses to back the players that have proven thus far to have sound interests in mind. Does he now see that Jan may just be in this for the $$$? Does he now see that by fostering a connection with Wallace he can elimate his anxiety over Ryan's evil turn by establishing a more important corporate ally? As someone mentioned earlier, does Michael recognize that he may have hit his corporate ceiling, but is intelligent enough to adapt to the situation to survive?

I thought this was the most compelling episode of the seaon BY FAR.... Michael's statement that he is not familiar with The Plaintiff, but is planning on renting it absolutely killed me... I've got to use that sometime ;-D

Nov 17th 2007

To add to Good Vibration's comments, I remember the end of "Money" where Jan had that talk with Michael and she was telling him what she thought was good about him. The thing I latched onto was her remark to him about how he sticks by her despite how horribly she treats him. That raised a red flag with me. Because she knows that she isn't treating him right and yet she continues to do things that hurt him. I have found myself in a similar position with a woman and she became history. And I see it as a possibility that Michael will probably do the same to Jan at some point.

Nov 18th 2007

"Were Jim's parents first cousins, who also sucked at ping pong?"

Best line of the show :)

Nov 18th 2007

Okay, that reminded me of this. The kid in the red coat is my youngest brother.

I love love love, when he starts attack the passenger of the car and the passenger replies "Ow, your hitting me" lines like that always make me laugh.

Nov 18th 2007 edited

I love love love, when he starts attack the passenger of the car and the passenger replies "Ow, your hitting me" lines like that always make me laugh.

Thank you for your sharing Asdfaeou, however this discussion is about last week's episode 4.08 The Deposition... Please contribute random or derivative thoughts and comments to the appropriate discussion.

I agree with Gould Vibrations' assertion that Michael made his decision to back DM not only because the company has never abused him as Jan has, but also because he recognizes the opportunity to make a key corporate ally of Wallace. A Michael-Wallace professional friendship would seem to negate the Evil-Ryan factor.

My favorite line of this episode comes from Jan talking to the backseat camera-person on the way to the deposition:
Jan: "He's just going to tell the truth. The truth is very, you know, complicated so we went over it carefully and just so that we wouldn't leave anything up to chance, or Michael's judgement."

Jan is my abso-fruit favorite character on television. She is me.

Nov 18th 2007 edited

DwightfromtheFuture 1 day ago edited block user block comment

Tracy also told a pigeon to have some self-respect and stop eating people's discarded french fries.

Okay, that reminded me of this. The kid in the red coat is my youngest brother.

WARNING: Serious language ahead.

I believe Asdfaeou was referring to this link posted above by Dftf. So, right thread.

Edit Never mind...too mean:)

Nov 18th 2007 edited

Thank you for that PamCasso.

Okay, here's how I feel about derivative tangents within dedicated discussions.. I don't like them. If we are going to have a specific discussion dedicated to an episode, can we please keep the conversation focused on something related to it? I personally get so much out of the comments and analysis. I also love the other discussions and comment threads, but because every episode of The Office packs in so much storyline development and character revelation, it feels disrespectful to spin the conversation off to randomness.

Nov 18th 2007

And your telling Asdfaeou to "contribute random or derivative thoughts and comments to the appropriate discussion" didn't feel disrespectful?

Considering that there will be no new episodes packed with storyline development and character revelation, I'd say it's especially unnecessary for you to come in here and try and tell people where to post.

Nov 18th 2007 edited

Okay, point taken Brian, but there was no disrespect intended in asking the blogger to contribute their comments to the appropriate discussion. That's blog-rules 101..

Please tell me dedicated fans of The Office, what do you personally think is the right way to carry on a focussed discussion? Would you really advocate letting episode-specific discussions go off on any direction?

If that is the case, then what is the purpose of having specific discussions... Just let chaos and randomness rule.

Okay, I feel better now.

Nov 18th 2007

Okay, here's how I feel about derivative tangents within dedicated discussions.. I don't like them.

Then you're in the wrong place, my friend. We're a pretty laid back bunch around here, and we wander off-topic all the time. You're free to post on-topic if you want, and people will respond. But if you can't handle the other conversations happening at the time, I don't know what to tell you, my friend.

In future, I suggest you learn the rules before you try to be the police. And don't be a jackass about it, either way.

Nov 18th 2007

Just tell me this Brian, what do you personally think is the right way to carry on a focussed discussion? Would you really advocate letting episode-specific discussions go off on any direction?

What do you think is happening here? Is it that you're incapable of filtering out comments that aren't about what you want to talk about, or that you're too lazy to do so? Unclench your asshole, my man.

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