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Classic Pam or Fancy New Beesley?
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Dec 9th 2007

Yes...yes...I know. There are already two Pam-centric threads here at the Watercooler. But evidently we've got a lot of time to kill before the strike ends. I'm also hoping this one will be topic-specific.

Besides. She's worth it.

So...Brown/blonde hair pulled back, or red hair let down? Grey hand-knit sweaters or brightly colored tops? Flirting with Jim on the down-low or smooching him in public? Do you prefer the Pam of the early seasons or the one we have now? Or are they both great, just different?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Dec 9th 2007

So...Brown/blonde hair pulled back, or red hair let down? Grey hand-knit sweaters or brightly colored tops? Flirting with Jim on the down-low or smooching him in public? Do you prefer the Pam of the early seasons or the one we have now? Or are they both great, just different?

Yes.

Dec 9th 2007

Thank you for your input. See, that wasn't so hard, was it?

TWSS

Dec 10th 2007

It looks like this idea died fast and quiet.

Oh well, just a suggestion.

Dec 10th 2007

I miss Ol' Pammy. The new one seems to have too much self-confidence which borders on braggy.

Dec 10th 2007 edited

Well, right now she's in that euphoric stage of a new love relationship. That can tend to make one feel like a god on earth. (I remember that feeling. That's a great feeling.)

She certainly did seem to take Gil's criticism to heart, though. IIRC, the very next episode she started consciously trying to exhibit more courage and honesty.

So you think that, between them, Gil and Jim (and Michael, with his wish in WA) have created a monster? Maybe. But she's a very hot monster! :-)

Dec 10th 2007

I definitely like classic Pam. In my opinion, by the time the strike is over, she will be walking around in provocative outfits, saying everything that comes into her head.

Dec 10th 2007

by the time the strike is over, she will be walking around in provocative outfits, saying everything that comes into her head.

She'll become Jan?

Dec 10th 2007

In my opinion, by the time the strike is over, she will be walking around in provocative outfits, saying everything that comes into her head.

I thought Pam might settle down a little bit. They'll have to do something with the JAM storyline, and if desperate times call for desperate measures, look for a big relationship checkup or something like that.

Oh and to answer the question, I think I like the mystery and the what if of classic JAM but I love the updated look and feel of new Pam.

Dec 10th 2007 edited

I love the feel of new Pam.

That's what Daoust said.

Edit: Also, just to double check. When I said this:

walking around in provocative outfits..etc.

I was referring to Angela in Traveling Salesmen. I said this to Mr. Casso, and he didn't get it. Now, I'm neither inferring nor implying that you Office Wunderkinds wouldn't get it, I'm just clarifying.

Also edited for grammar slouchiness

Dec 10th 2007

I didn't say that, PamCasso, for clearly I would have upper cased that I. I ain't no grammar slouch.

Dec 10th 2007

Is there a thread where people discuss the myth (and it is a myth) that happy couples make bad TV, and that there has to be "tension" to keep viewers tuned in?

'Cause I've got some pretty strong opinions on that BS. :-)

Dec 10th 2007

Well, people in real life evolve and change, so why can't TV characters? Plus, it's not like the sweet, innocent Pam has been marked forever by more flattering hairstyles and plunging necklines. The inner core of the character hasn't changed.

A good indication of how someone feels about themselves is reflected in the way they choose to represent themselves to the world. Pam's demure dress in the first three seasons (other than being appropriate for office settings) showed that at the root of it all she was profoundly unhappy with Roy. Her old-woman sweaters and stuffy, button-up shirts reflected her belief that she wasn't going to do any better, so why bother. Now that she's with Jim, I think we're seeing more of her natural happiness soar through. Yeah, she's dressing different and she might not be the "same old" Pam, but dammit if she isn't happier now. You can't knock her for trying to show it.

And remember: she did the makeover after she got the guy (most shows emphasize changing in order to get the guy or gal, but Pam's warmth and attractiveness to Jim shone through her demure garb).

Dec 10th 2007

We could discuss that in this thread. Opinions away!

Dec 10th 2007

And remember: she did the makeover after she got the guy (most shows emphasize changing in order to get the guy or gal, but Pam's warmth and attractiveness to Jim shone through her demure garb).

I like your thoughts on this. I just wish her warmth and attractiveness to Jim would shine through her Fancy New Garb too.

Dec 10th 2007

'Cause I've got some pretty strong opinions on that BS. :-)

Let 'em fly, MTT, but don't forget to provide lots of examples of fictional television couples' relationships.

Dec 10th 2007 edited

I just wish her warmth and attractiveness to Jim would shine through her Fancy New Garb too.

I agree. Less Garb for Pam.

Dec 10th 2007 edited

I like both. I like old skool Pam cause I could relate. But, I like new skool Pam cause she's happier and has a hott boyfriend. I like seeing Pam happy. Did I mention her boyfriend is hott, cause he is.

Dec 10th 2007

Griefbone it's too early in the morning for me to think of a sarcastic comment for you. And by "early", I mean, the baby woke up every two hours. She's getting her first tooth.

Dec 10th 2007

I agree. Less Garb for Pam.

So she should walk around naked? I'll watch for that ;-)

Dec 10th 2007

I don't need sarcastic comments just yet either. I understand your point about new Pam, and I just wish the strike hadn't occurred so we could see where they were headed with her.
On a different note, though, has Jim really changed from who he was in Season 1 or 2? Would he? Aside from grabbing Pam and kissing her in front of everyone, what's changed about him?

Dec 10th 2007

And there I go, changing the topic again.

Dec 10th 2007 edited

I've been thinking not a whole lot. Wasn't that what we were thinking this season was going to be about? If Jim and Pam both change into such different people (in my opinion, Pam is already miles down that path) I really don't know what I'll do. Will the chemistry be the same? I already think it's changed, and not for the better.

Edit: It's ok, I still love you even though you give me grief. Pun!

Dec 10th 2007 edited

Some happy couples viewers loved to watch, from TV comedies past and present:

  1. Rob and Laura Petrie
  2. Bob and Emily Hartley
  3. Paul and Jamie Buchman (Mad About You didn't jump the shark until the writers decided to add angst and tension into their relationship)
  4. Monica Gellar and Chandler Bing (Their relationship saved Friends when people were getting sick of Ross and Rachel)
  5. Carla and Turk (They've had their problems, like any couple. But they've stuck together)
  6. Even, in their dysfunctional way, Raymond and Debra Barone

On the other side, when the writers keep having to create more and more contrived plot devices to maintain "unfulfilled romantic tension" between a couple, that couple becomes tiresome ("Piss or get off the pot!") Ross and Rachel became the classic example of this. And I don't think Dr. Cox is the only one annoyed by JD and Elliot's 7-year long "Is they is or is they ain't" dance.

That's what I can think of, off the top of my head.

Look. All I'm saying is that we had 2 and a half seasons of desire, frustration and angst from PB & J. Can't we, for the love of God, see them happy for at least a little while?

I guess, after what happened to my own marriage, I'd like to see some joy in love. Even if it's on a TV show.

Dec 10th 2007

Even, in their dysfunctional way, Raymond and Debra Barone

I didn't ever really watch this show, but every time I watched pieces of it, it seemed lke they were completely miserable with each other. All they did was scream and yell. Of course, that's coming from an extremely limited sample size.

Dec 10th 2007

I watched a lot of the show, and the surprising (and frightening) part to me was just how normal they were. People in love yell and fight and snip and make up and start over again.

Dec 10th 2007

I suppose I never saw the making up part, but just the two of them berating each other. It always seemed like Who's Afraid of Debra Barone?

Dec 10th 2007

It always seemed like Who's Afraid of Debra Barone?

LMAO!!!

Dec 10th 2007

I like both. I like old skool Pam cause I could relate. But, I like new skool Pam cause she's happier and has a hott boyfriend. I like seeing Pam happy. Did I mention her boyfriend is hott, cause he is.

I totally agree with all of this. Especially the hot part.

Dec 10th 2007 edited

Especially the hot part.

Yep.

Pam was really inspirational to me for her whole Season 3 turn around. To see her triumph makes me think that I can triumph too. And have cute clothes.

I liked Ross and Rachel in the beginning, I now despise them. Thanks Friends. I never cared, got into, or saw what was the big deal about JD and Elliot on Scrubs. I watch Scrubs in spite of them. The perfect relationship on Scrubs anyway is Turk and JD. My fav tv couple was Felicity and Ben. It fun watching them, they were always so cute together.

Jam has more going for them than will they won't they. Their personalities are interesting, their personality as a couple is interesting. Also, I Dvd' this whole thing, but people who watched them in real time suffered, it was painful, they deserve a payoff. I even suffered, I cried during the stairwell scene in Money because of the pain I endured and that was only for like a week of watching DVd's. Ross and Rachel or JD and Elliot not getting together doesn't kill you, but Jam will.

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