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4.09 Dinner Party
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Apr 12th 2008

For the record, I'm didn't read any JAM-tension or Pam-bitchiness into the TiVo scene. I agree with those who saw that as her being gracious to Michael.

Apr 12th 2008

This is clearly the best episode of the new season. It had so many uncomfortable moments in it, just like I love. I won't be able to watch this one without cringing for at least two years. Still not as awful as A Benihana Christmas though. That one rules the awkward universe.

Apr 12th 2008

OK, I’m going to have to agree to disagree on this unless I watch it a million more times and change my mind, which is entirely possible and probable.

So Pam isn't about to let Jim abandon her without a ride at the worst party anyone's ever attended, so that makes her a bitch? The closest to seething hostility came in the bathroom talking head, when no one could see or hear her but the camera. She didn't lash out in the kitchen when Jan and Angela outright accused her of having an affair with her boss. At most I'd say Pam had an air of pained desperation about her, which I loved on every viewing. If she made the best of things and had fun with that party, it would have undercut the very mania that Jan was perpetuating and that was the intended tone of the episode. I loved Pam's panicked expression when Jan makes the "three hours" comment. I do agree Jim's kind of a wuss, especially around pushy women.

Brian, et al, I didn’t mean that I think Pam is a bitch. I think Pam inherently is a very sweet, caring person. Looking at it from a work standpoint, though, they are having dinner with their boss and their former boss. I just found it unlike Pam and a little inappropriate to criticize Jim (who is over everybody else) and a co-worker in front of their boss and other co-workers. That was after only watching it twice. I just thought that this was a new trait of Pam’s that I hadn’t noticed before. Also, Pam is really nice; she hasn’t turned into “super assertive woman” or anything. She was the old Pam with Angela and Jan. Also, Pam may be really competitive which might cause her to act that way. I’m not sure.

I didn’t see seething hostility either. I did see that Pam was promising Jim from across the room that she would be really pissed if he left her stranded at the party, and who wouldn’t be? It’s just that the Jim I knew (imagined) would have either figured out a way for them both to go so he could take her somewhere and feed her or suggested that she should go on without him so she could eat. My god, I worry she might be diabetic.

I thought Pam's comment about the TiVo thing was entirelu innocuous as to Jim and was just used to make Michael feel good about his table/TV installation. I didn't read anything into it.

gb: Really? I’m not sure, especially looking at the whole season. They seem to have created a pattern, in S4, of not backing each other up. Pam let Jim hang in the Finer Things Club and even apologized for him, which at the time, I thought was kind of small. Jim, on the other hand, has always stepped up for Pam with Dwight and Michael. When Pam griped about the TiVo thing Jim was not smiling or looking like “OK, she’s teasing me”. He didn’t seem surprised either (no Wow! Jim face) like he had experienced that from her before.

And if her worst criticism of Jim is that he can't connect a Tivo -- a comment made in response to and agreement with his much stronger comment that he can't do anything like that -- I'd say they have many happy years ahead together.

Jim and Pam were different in this episode, and I think Brian's nailed the reason for it. Also, there's a difference between quipping and escaping at work, and quite another when you're trapped in a condo with Liz Taylor and Richard Burton. I like the fact that we saw a different side of Jim and Pam: sometimes the situation are going to overwhelm them, either individually (like Jim with the birthday parties or Pam with the ping pong) or as a couple. The fact that they were together in the car at the end, eating and singing, sure made it look like they're fine.

I totally agree and well put. I don’t think for a second that this is the end for Jim and Pam. I didn’t think it was a sink or swim interaction and I love seeing the different facets of their personalities come out. I was just thinking that here is another puzzle piece of what they are like as a couple outside the office. I do think they will have to work through his fear of pushy women issues and her tolerance issues as they go along. And, I think they are just fine.

The entire atmosphere between them was so relaxed. The way they were making fun of Michael & Jan (Babe), Jim singing to Hunters CD, and then Pam chiming in like Andy did,only with a chuckle in her voice. The whole evening turned out to be a lighthearted joke that will go down in memory lane and will keep them laughiung for years..

TO, oh yeah, it was such a relief to see that. I love the love.

Apr 12th 2008

Also, welcome to Oaky Afterbirth, which is a totally awesome name. Go introduce yourself in the Introductions thread.

Apr 12th 2008

Daoust, you forgot the Magic Word!

Apr 12th 2008

Please?

Apr 12th 2008

eh.

Apr 12th 2008

mtt puts on his best Old Jewish Man voice

"Daoust was always such a good boy."

Apr 12th 2008 edited

`

Apr 12th 2008

Someone needed to apologize for Jim's behavior at the Finer Things Club, and he wasn't going to do it.

mtt puts on his best Old Jewish Man voice

"Daoust was always such a good boy."

All the time he is telling this, and demanding this, and for once we ask he should say "please", and what do we get? Gornischt!

Apr 12th 2008

Someone needed to apologize for Jim's behavior at the Finer Things Club, and he wasn't going to do it.

Yes, but right in front of him? Cringe worthy for me.

Apr 12th 2008

This is clearly the best episode of the new season. It had so many uncomfortable moments in it, just like I love.

I feel like we're in a new season, call it Season 4.5. I have a hard time seeing this as the same season in which the Fun Run took place and DMI was launched. I like the cringe in well, though.

Apr 12th 2008

All the time he is telling this, and demanding this, and for once we ask he should say "please", and what do we get? Gornischt!

Nu? What can you do?

Apr 12th 2008 edited

I feel like we're in a new season, call it Season 4.5. I have a hard time seeing this as the same season in which the Fun Run took place and DMI was launched.

It's like the Twilight Zone. We'll have to see what happens next, but this one was bizzare compared to the first part of the season. I don't think my jaw closed for the full 30 minutes. Because of the spoilies, I was expecting non-stop hilarity. I can see now it might be better to avoid spoilers for awhile.

Apr 12th 2008

Yeah, maybe it's just that this was supposed to be a weird, mid-season episode sandwiched among more typical stories. Then again, there hasn't been a summer hiatus as long as the hiatus just passed.

Apr 12th 2008

When Pam griped about the TiVo thing Jim was not smiling or looking like “OK, she’s teasing me”. He didn’t seem surprised either (no Wow! Jim face) like he had experienced that from her before.

Well, he wouldn't register anything if it was a fact and nothing was meant by it. It's just one of those stories a part of a couple tells about the foibles of the other person. It doesn't have to be a gripe or an indictment of the other person, I don't think, for it to warrant being a funny thing to tell. But, just like Madge, I'm going to use Anque's favorite expression and agree to disagree.

I like the cringe in well, though.

In well? If the dinner party is in a well, I don't want to go.

maybe it's just that this was supposed to be a weird, mid-season episode sandwiched among more typical stories.

I sort of preferred this episode to some of the other ones from season 4.0.

Apr 12th 2008

I feel like we're in a new season, call it Season 4.5. I have a hard time seeing this as the same season in which the Fun Run took place and DMI was launched. I like the cringe in well, though.

I'm not being critical of your comment Brian. Being that you're the TV columnist and all, I'm just curious about what you mean by it. Do you think that they are changing the direction of the show since before the haitus? If so, what makes you think that?

Apr 12th 2008

When did Jim develop a fear of pushy women and the issues they create? That is not a psychological facet I have observed in him. That is a very strong statement.

This comment is probably hours too late but this page was on my computer and I started typing before I hit refresh.

Apr 12th 2008

Well, he wouldn't register anything if it was a fact and nothing was meant by it. It's just one of those stories a part of a couple tells about the foibles of the other person. It doesn't have to be a gripe or an indictment of the other person, I don't think, for it to warrant being a funny thing to tell.

gb, I now see your point. I think I am over thinking again.

Apr 12th 2008 edited

When did Jim develop a fear of pushy women and the issues they create? That is not a psychological facet I have observed in him.

I hadn't observed it before either. I was talking about Jim who, in the deleted scene, said that Jan scares him after he denied eating with Pam. Also, his reunion with Karen which at the time seemed insignificant. With his fear of Jan, it might be more significant now. I'm mostly just speculating. I hope the NAPD doesn't burst in to bounce me to the Speculation thread.

Apr 12th 2008

Read Brian's funny recap at Remote Access.

Apr 12th 2008

thanks for welcoming me and all but i don't need you telling me what to do. I'll appear where ever I want... and where i want to be is here.

Apr 12th 2008

Jan is scary whether or not she is pushy.

Apr 12th 2008

I am disappointed Pam didn't play along.

KarenM, I know. I have a happier Jim and Pam thought because this is a happy place. Jim did try to diffuse the awkwardness with humor a few times during the party but because Pam was starving, cold, and being verbally assaulted all night, she wasn’t there to play along or be amused so they all fell flat or unnoticed. So, Jim isn’t as cool without Pam as he his with her. It appears that she completes him.

Apr 12th 2008

Jan is scary whether or not she is pushy.

She definitely is. I guess Todd Packer knew Godzillary better than we did. I'll have to put my ideas about Jim and pushy women aside until more episodes reveal more about it. I have to admit that I watch for things that might be a sign of bad things to come for Jim and Pam, thus my over thinking and likely overreaching.

Apr 12th 2008

I have to admit that I watch for things that might be a sign of bad things to come for Jim and Pam

Well, stop doing that then. Those crazy kids are going to make it.

Apr 12th 2008

I know, I know. It's a curse!

Apr 12th 2008 edited

Someone pointed out that one of the scents available from Serenity by Jan is Hunter Green. Well he was green...

Apr 12th 2008

I have to admit that I watch for things that might be a sign of bad things to come for Jim and Pam

Damn you Casino Night and all you have wrought!

Apr 12th 2008

Brian, et al, I didn’t mean that I think Pam is a bitch. I think Pam inherently is a very sweet, caring person. Looking

Okay, I have something to say here. Whether your talking about being a bitch or acting a bitch, the fact of the matter is that the word "bitch" imply's active, purposeful attacking. Your intent in the situation is to put a person down. Pam IMO, wasn't doing this at all. The furniture/Tivo comment was given as a funny story like a "look how cute he is" also, comment to Andy was a common sense thing, she didn't set out to hurt Andy or Jim and I don't think either of them were hurt. I have to heartily disagree with the assessment that Pam was being a bitch.

I do think however, that this is part of a growing process. Children learn to do new things, like talk then go overboard and back talk, till they correct themselves. It's the same with adults/Pam. She is learning to stick up for herself, so every so often she's going to go overboard a little. It's part of the growing process (hence the term "growing pains"). Her intent was not bad however, just misguided.

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