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4.11 Night Out
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Apr 28th 2008 edited

Yep. Leslie and Melora: I love you, but shut the hell up.

Air-High five to you, gb! Also, you can eat my poo.

I've never even watched the S3 commentaries, mostly because I've heard from you folks how bad they are.

But some of them are really good. I liked the one for The Initiation because BJ had some insight into what it was like to write with Jim gone. Business School was also a good one with Brent Forrester, BJ and Rainn. I liked the one for TS/TR except for the whole Leslie thing but Rainn and Ed Helms more than made up for it. I loved Ed saying "You look like my mom, Rainn" and I loved John hearing John say "That is some funny shit". Let's see...Oh, the one for Safety Training with Mindy, BJ and Harold was good as was Beach Games because Jen Celotta and Ed were in that one. I guess you can tell that I like the ones with the writers in them because they give more insight...which reminds me, I liked the one for Women's Appreciation because Gene and Lee were in it but I loved teh Jenna/Angela interraction in it as well.

Apr 28th 2008

I liked the one for The Initiation because BJ had some insight into what it was like to write with Jim gone.

I also liked his comments on the Jim/Pam phone call at the end.

Apr 28th 2008

Novak seems to give the best insight on the show, whether it be commentaries, interviews, or stuff like the OT Q&A.

Apr 28th 2008

Novak rocks in every way that he's involved in the show.

Apr 28th 2008

I loved what Ken Kwapis said in his commentary on TJ. I can't remember everything he said now, but he did say that they talked about why Jim wasn't staying with Karen, because the look so good together, bullshit, and he said it was the love....he just loves Pam. (eek! or was that Paul that said that?) I also love BJ's commentary on anything.

Apr 28th 2008

The Job commentary is easily the best of them.

Apr 28th 2008

I loved what Ken Kwapis said in his commentary on TJ. I can't remember everything he said now, but he did say that they talked about why Jim wasn't staying with Karen, because the look so good together, bullshit, and he said it was the love....he just loves Pam. (eek! or was that Paul that said that?) I also love BJ's commentary on anything.

Yeah, I think that was Dave Rodgers who said that about Jim and Karen. He said that while they were editing this episode together with the pieces of Jim and Karen in NY that they looked good together(NOT) and they mentioned something about this while doing that and Paul said something like "It's the heart. It's just love. Jim loves Pam." I also loved how Ken said that while filming Pam's final TH how he was crying, too and how that TH was a completely transcended moment.

Apr 28th 2008

Thanks for straightening me out on that lemondada, I'd forgotten about Dave Rodgers. You are like an encyclopedia of Office knowledge! (not like puke-i-pedia). I also loved what Ken said about the final scene. That whole thing always makes me cry.

Apr 28th 2008

He said that while they were editing this episode together with the pieces of Jim and Karen in NY that they looked good together

Someone also mentioned how they had to be careful with Jim not to give away what his decision was going to be. They were a bit too effective for my taste.

Apr 28th 2008

Someone also mentioned how they had to be careful with Jim not to give away what his decision was going to be. They were a bit too effective for my taste.

Me too DC, me too.

Apr 28th 2008

Was it in her contributions for the commentary on The Job or Casino Night that Melora mentioned how radiant Jenna was?

That covered a multitude of Melora's commentary-sins, in my book.

Apr 28th 2008

Of course we didn't really need her to know that right mtt?

Apr 28th 2008

I didn't know that the S1 DVD's had a commentary. They didn't on the DVD's I watched? Is that what you mean by a regional thing?

I still haven't seen the S3 DVD's, in part because, like someone else mentioned, you guys scared me off of them. But I think I should definitely get them sometime. Its too bad someone wouldn't have thought to put the DVD Commentary episodes online. (Maybe they are?) If they are, I've never seen them.

Apr 28th 2008

Of course we didn't really need her to know that right mtt?

Of course not. Still, it's always comforting to receive validation of one's own opinions in the media.

Why on earth do you think anyone listens to Rush Limbaugh?

Apr 28th 2008 edited

Because they like hearing the truth? Or have a twisted sense of humor? Masochism?

By the way, several years ago I used to listen to Bill O'Reilly's radio show while I ate lunch, and the callers would crack me up--they would spend the first several minutes talking about how wonderful O'Reilly was, how great he was, and just generally how he was the best thing ever to happen to the world. It was awesome.

Apr 28th 2008

Too much time on their hands?

Apr 28th 2008

I really loved the TS/TR commentary and Saftety Training. Also, Women's Appreciation, I think it's the Jenna girl crush I got. I also liked when Angela was making fun of John for seeming snippy in one of the commentaries. That was funny. And BJ is good in all he does. Oh yeah The Initiation commentary was good.

Apr 28th 2008 edited

I now have a better insight into how all you guys felt during S3 when you were watching all the bad stuff unfold week after week, with no knowledge of the Happy Ending to come.

Here's the thing: I was never under any illusions of where they were headed. I don't really think that most people around here really entertained any illusions about the fact that Jim & Pam were going to be together at the end of the season. My unfolding disappointment was in the fact that they decided to waste a whole bunch of time on things like Jim's pointless, boring and unenlightening relationship with the protean Karen when we all knew where we were going to end up. Like I said many times back then, The Office is many things, but Veronica Mars it is not. We all knew where it was headed.

In fact, part of the problem with the third season was that it telegraphed its punches so badly. At no point was I really surprised by any major plot arc. I watched the Pam and Roy reunion coming from a mile down the track, cringing, hoping it wouldn't happen, and then when it did, instead of doing anything illuminating with it -- not that I'm sure there was anything they could have done that I would have found illuminating -- they just took it as an excuse to turn the show into a soap opera for an episode or two. It was ugly and stupid. Perhaps if I had thought that there was any chance that the story was going anywhere other than where it obviously was -- to Jim & Pam finally acknowledging what they so delicately danced around for a year and a half, and then ham-fistedly ignored for no reason for another year -- I might not have objected so much. But there was no mystery. Not that there needed to be. But when you're taking a drive to a known destination and the scenery is flat and ugly, then what's the point?

Apr 28th 2008

DftF you've reminded me of two of the more illuminating things to come out of the S3 commentaries. The first was a comment by Melora Hardin on either Beach Games or The Job about Jim and Karen goofing around that it was the first time she ever "got" their relationship, I thought that said volumes about how poorly they had done with that plot line. The second was Jenna's from The Job, concerning the scene with Karen in the kitchen ("Pam is kind of a bitch."), about how she could have spent 6-7 episodes dueling it out with Rashida over Jim which would have been way more entertaining that what we got.

Apr 28th 2008

Well, DftF, we've had this conversation once or twice already. So, rather than rehash the past yet again, I'd like to ask you a question about the future. You said:

Here's the thing: I was never under any illusions of where they were headed.

And, again:

In fact, part of the problem with the third season was that it telegraphed its punches so badly.

So my question is, do you see them having the same problem this time around? Do you feel confident in guessing where they're taking the characters this season, and are you sure of what we'll see by the finale?

I'm curious about your take on this.

Apr 28th 2008

I'd like to ask you a question about the future.

He's from the future, so that should be easy for him to answer.

Apr 28th 2008

Here's the thing: I was never under any illusions of where they were headed.

A slight difference I had - I was never under any illusion that Jim & Pam would get together at some point, but they did have me guessing whether or not it would happen in S3. I thought the best we would get was Jim breaking it off with Karen and her leaving (especially since she was always a guest actor) and Jim & Pam repairing their friendship with hope for the future.

Apr 28th 2008

I didn't know that the S1 DVD's had a commentary. They didn't on the DVD's I watched? Is that what you mean by a regional thing?

Were it a regional thing, the discs wouldn't play at all.

Apr 28th 2008

I don't think that this season has been quite as predictable, partially because the big, predictable event -- Jim & Pam getting together -- has already happened. And I do like to think that they're too smart to just have Jim & Pam play the Ross & Rachael game, which might make me (and a lot of other people) quit watching. Also, it's hard to know what might have happened in a full season, instead of two semi-distinct partial seasons.

I do have a pretty strong feeling about what's going to happen next -- Jim's going to propose to Pam and she's not going to be ready to take that step yet -- but it's not as obvious as every single element of the ongoing storyline seemed to be last season. Last season, the only doubt I had was created by the illusion I was under that the powers that be were more creative than they actually turned out to be. Once it turned into a cliché-fest, it was pretty obvious what was going to happen. This year has had no such failings on the Jim-and-Pam front, and my guesses really are that -- guesses, built as much on intuition as anything else.

I sincerely hope that if I'm right about what's to happen next between Jim and Pam, it doesn't cause the whole relationship to come off the rails. Because it would cause a lot of relationships to come off the rails. But I've got very serious Jim & Pam Angst Fatigue, and I don't really want the down-beat, realistic thing to happen in this possible scenario. And I don't think it will. One of the things about Jim & Pam that I felt they completely lost control of in the third season is that they were this sort of ray of hope amid a lot of people who lived really bleak lives -- be they profoundly loney (Michael), bizarre and unnecessarily hostile (Dwight), or frustrating and difficult (Ryan). They've finally got back to that point now, and I find myself doubtful that they're likely to destroy that just for the sake of a summer cliffhanger after a truncated season in which not much really happened.

Apr 28th 2008

One of the things about Jim & Pam that I felt they completely lost control of in the third season is that they were this sort of ray of hope amid a lot of people who lived really bleak lives -- be they profoundly loney (Michael), bizarre and unnecessarily hostile (Dwight), or frustrating and difficult (Ryan).

That reminds me of my favorite line from the UK series:

The people you work with are just people you were thrown together with. Y'know, you don't know them, it wasn't your choice. And yet you spend more time with them than you do your friends or your family. But probably all you've got in common is the fact that you walk round on the same bit of carpet for eight hours a day. And so, obviously, when someone comes in who you have a connection with - yeah, and Dawn was a ray of sunshine in my life - it can mean a lot. But if I'm really being honest, I never really thought it would have a happy ending. I don't know what a happy ending is. Life isn't about endings, is it? It's a series of moments. And um, if you turn the camera off, it's not an ending is it? I'm still here. My life is not over. Come back here in ten years. See how I'm doing then. 'Cause I could be married with children, you don't know. Life just goes on.

Gets me every time.

Apr 28th 2008

CZJ, that's one of my favorite lines of that whole series.

Apr 28th 2008

Thanks for sharing that quote CZJ. Of course I've heard it before from watching the episode, but seeing it in quoted in your post, converted it to an expression of profound insight IMO. I think it's worthy of being put in a frame and hung on my wall.

Apr 28th 2008

Pam's final TH in The Job sort of reminds me of Tim's TH that you just quoted.

Apr 28th 2008

And I do like to think that they're too smart to just have Jim & Pam play the Ross & Rachael game, which might make me (and a lot of other people) quit watching.

You and me both, brother.

Apr 28th 2008

That is a remarkable quote, just absolutely moving. Thanks for posting it CZJ.

Pam's final TH in The Job sort of reminds me of Tim's TH that you just quoted.

I wholeheartedly agree.

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