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"I'm just sad the public school system failed him so badly": The Gardening Thread
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Sep 14th 2009

I'm still waiting to hear what the reasoning behind the Catholic Church's ban on contraception is because what I've heard so far makes no sense.

Every sperm is sacred.

Sep 14th 2009

If God has issues with us making that decision, He will make it known to us, in some form or another, I believe.

He'll cut your dick off, Larry.

Sep 14th 2009 edited

To have great sex all you need to do is-

KANYE WEST: Excuse me, Dawsome. I’m gonna let you finish, but I gotta say
that Beyoncé is the best person to have sex with of all time!

CONGESSMAN WILSON: You lie!

VENUS WILLIAMS: Hey! If you interrupt Kanye West while he’s interrupting
someone again, I’m gonna kill you, bitch!

LINE JUDGE: Foul!

VENUS WILLIAMS: What?!!!

DWIGHT: Okay, we have a fire in the building. What do we do?

KANYE WEST: Um, if we could get back to me for a minute-

DWIGHT: Where are our emergency exits?

DAWSOME: …then you smear her calves with the excess frosting…

BRETT FAVRE: Would this be a bad time to announce my retirement?

CHRISTIAN BALE: This is totally unprofessional!

PRESIDENT OBAMA: All right, let’s all calm down and have a beer.

CHRISTIAN BALE: No, Barrack! Let me finish!

DWIGHT: Do you want to die?!

MICHAEL: Fire?! Someone save my Turtles!

PRESIDENT OBAMA: I’ll have a Bud Light.

GLENN BECK: Racist!

CRAZY MCCAIN SUPPORTER: He’s a Muslim!

KANYE WEST: And he doesn’t care about black people!

PRESIDENT OBAMA: What?!!

KANYE WEST: Did I stutter?!!!

DWIGHT: I’ll take care of this, Mr. President!

(Dwight tackles Kanye)

KANYE WEST: No! Don’t tase me, bro!

BRETT FAVRE: I'm back!

LINE JUUDGE: Foul!

MICHAEL: Where are the TURTLES?!!!

(Dwight gets Kanye in a headlock)

DWIGHT: Say it! SAY IT!!!

KANYE WEST: I state my regret!

CONGESSMAN WILSON: Me too.

EVERYBODY: You lie!

DAWSOME: … and it’s called a Spanish gravy boat.

LINE JUDGE: Foul!

Sep 15th 2009 edited

I knew this thread had to go off the rails at some point, but I am glad it made it to page three at least, before that happened.

Getting back on topic, ahem, I don't really have much to add to the "pill is the greatest invention of the 20th century" point that CZ-J made on the last page because my wife was only on it for about three months until we got pregnant while she was on it. But I certainly think it has afforded many of us the luxury (or burden) of greater sexual freedom, and that as a result has contributed, at least in part, to the rampant over sexualization of society.

Sep 15th 2009

Some people use contraception because they are on other medication that makes pregnancy dangerous for the mother and the baby. Those people get the fun benefits of contraception without any of the potential guilt that might come from violating religious precepts to which they subscribe. Some people, anyway.

Sep 15th 2009

Some people

I'm going to start using this phrase in this thread when I'm referring to specific persons from now on. Thanks for the idea, B.

Sep 15th 2009

Sexual 'freedom' has been around at least since Roman times in one way or another. If it wasn't the master of the castle sleeping with his mistresses or other men's wives, it was slave owners sleeping with slaves. Sexuality is definitely a lot more in your face now than it ever was, and part of that has to do with the sexual revolution, but most of it has to do with the consumer revolution and the fact that sex sells everything. I think it's funny that we talk about this massive sexual freedom that has been let loose upon society, and yet we are still a rather sexually repressed society, as is evidenced by the fact that this thread was so hard to start.

As far as the sin of spilling your seed, one cannot possibly tell me that pre-ejaculation didn't exist back then. Or wet dreams. It seems like yet another huMAN addition to the Bible. If contraception is bad because spilling your seed is bad, why wouldn't refusing to sew your seed (or let someone sew their seed in you) also be a sin? I mean, that's a form of contraception right there. Abstinence, right? So if you are married and choose not to have sex, does that mean you are a sinner?

Also, spilling one's seed...what does that mean, really? Literally spilling it, as in whoops, as in pre-ejaculation and wet dreams? Or "wasting" it on an effort that cannot produce heirs? Blowjobs are a sin, then? Really any other form of sex other than vaginal penetration is a sin? And 'proper' sex with a woman who cannot have children anymore is a sin? What if your seed isn't viable? Is it still a waste to expend it? Who gets to decide these things?

Sep 15th 2009

As far as the sin of spilling your seed

You lost me right about here.

Sep 15th 2009

I don't actually know what is in the Bible and what isn't. Is that actually in the Bible?

Sep 15th 2009

Yes. It is.

Genesis 38: 8-10 8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

It's the passage that people have historically, and I think erroneously, used to argue that masturbation is a sin, and so is any form of birth control where the sperm is 'wasted'. Onan was killed by God because he disobeyed God, not for masturbating, but for neglecting to do his family duty and prolonging the family line. Anyway, it's all in the reading.

Sep 15th 2009

Got me. When Bible stuff makes no sense to me or seems contradictory, I ignore it and take a WWJD approach. I think God's cool with that.

Sep 15th 2009

I think Onan had issues.

Sep 15th 2009

I think Onan had issues.

Seriously. Thanks, D.

I just wrote up this whole post that totally belongs in the God thread. Then I hit copy/paste for something else and erased it so you'll just have to wonder forever.

Sep 15th 2009

There's about 8 crazy things in that passage. That any religious authority would use it to try and enforce a ban on contraception is even crazier.

Sep 15th 2009

VENUS WILLIAMS

Wrong one. It was Serena that freaked the eff out this weekend.

Sep 15th 2009 edited

I think Onan had issues

The first recorded reference to 'taking one for the team'.

Sep 15th 2009

Our "hyper-sexualized society" is a bit of a myth, actually, just like the idea that the USA was supposed to be a Christian nation and somehow that all got perverted in the 50s. Wait -- it's not that it's not out there; it's that it has almost always been out there in one way or another, and often, in times past, WAAAAAAY more in your face. During the reign of Charles II (for example), just after the end of Cromwell's protectorate and the Restoration of the British monarchy, there was hardly a piece of popular art that didn't include elaborate sexual punning and/or an endorsement of a permissive worldview that advocated "courtly" promiscuity and sexual forwardness.

History does not stop with Victorian times, and the fact of the matter is that it took English-speaking society nearly a hundred years to recover from an era of massive repressiveness to a somewhat more normal relationship with sex and sexuality. Perhaps it seems like sex can be found in more places than before, but I'd argue, along with Anque, that has as much to do with commercialization, and the explosion in types of media, as it really does with the pill and sexual freedom. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of this much-bemoaned "freedom" of sexuality has in fact been restricted again, largely by the dangers of AIDS. There have always been some people who had many partners. I don't think that's hugely more prevalent now than it has been at other times in history.

Sep 15th 2009

Furthermore, I think what one person my see as repressiveness another might call, "None of your business any more than how much I make, shit that really scares me and how I got that tattoo on my ass." Not everybody thinks everything is equally OK to discuss publicly, and repression is only one of many possible reasons why.

Sep 15th 2009 edited

Not everybody thinks everything is equally OK to discuss publicly

Fair point

Sep 15th 2009

But you should, especially on this very private internet forum.

I suggest you stop talking about my ass tattoo. NOW!

Sep 15th 2009

Not everybody thinks everything is equally OK to discuss publicly, and repression is only one of many possible reasons why.

Aw, CG. Repression is not very cool, guy. You do realize that if you don't want to shout every last intimate detail about your sexual experience then, now and in the future, that you're repressed, even if you think you're not repressed, right? That's how the repressers get you maaaaan.

On the opposite footing, it does not make me repressed if I put my hypothetical fingers in my hypothetical ears while you're busy shouting. I don't want to hear about all that. Weird, man. Weird.

Also, on a more serious note, I apologize for implying that anyone who does not want to talk about their own individual sexual exploits is repressed. That was not my intention. Privacy is important.

Sep 15th 2009

"I once got busy in a Burger King bathroom!" - Humpty Hump

Sep 15th 2009

Aw, CG. Repression is not very cool, guy. You do realize that if you don't want to shout every last intimate detail about your sexual experience then, now and in the future, that you're repressed, even if you think you're not repressed, right? That's how the repressers get you maaaaan.

OK, fine, so it was me, Loni Anderson, Dom Deluise, two doberman's and bottle of Peach Schnapps. Loni says, "Hey, wanna see my rash?" And Dom says, "That's no rash! That's where I put my--"

Wait, those aren't repressed memories. My therapist put those there.

Also, my last reads more defensive are snotty or something than I meant it. I'd share if I had anything I felt was interesting worth sharing. I was just thinking about how there's probably lots of reasons not to share, privacy of others involved being one. Like Loni's going to kill me for blabbing the above.

Sep 15th 2009

OK, fine, so it was me, Loni Anderson, Dom Deluise, two doberman's and bottle of Peach Schnapps. Loni says, "Hey, wanna see my rash?" And Dom says, "That's no rash! That's where I put my--"

For the record, Dom was just holding the camera.

Sep 15th 2009

I think I get where the B is coming from...the only dude I've had sex with in the last 7 years is Mr. Fishing and since he's my husband and all that, I do NOT feel comfortable talking about our sex life here. Now, I could talk about the other dudes I've had sex with before we got married, but to be honest, I don't remember them all that well, nor do I recall our sexy times with enough detail to be interesting.

And for the record, if you're having a orgy, everyone knows you don't drink Peach Schnapps. You drink Goldschlager.

Sep 15th 2009

I can't remember my source on this, but I am saying it anyway.

Even in the era of Victorian hypersqueamishness about sex, what they really lacked was this intense sexualization of the body. Nudity just sort of was a part of life. There was no giggling about the hooha, or about skinny dipping, or weirdness about a lot of the things people get weird about today (ie, nursing in public). Now, you wouldn't nurse in public in 1878, but it wasn't because of boobies. You just didn't feed children in front of other adults except maybe at home. An art class might use a nude model, but keeping your daughter out of it was because of what good is a female artist, not because of wangs.

And even the Victorians weren't that sexually repressed. You have pornography to thank for paperback books. They were just told to be extremely private people, probably in response to the breaking down of the walls between the public sphere and home, and women's rights and all that (different essay). They get a bad rap.

Sep 15th 2009

I would say that access to media (internet, TV, movies) has made it more difficult to stay with your spouse, regardless of sex in the media. When my grandpa got married, his wife was maybe the prettiest woman on his road. That's OK, because he only knew women from his road. You only saw maybe 50 women on a regular basis. Now, the prettiest people in the world (and funniest, and most charming, and those with the best writers) are constantly on TV, on the internet, in the movies. Most of them are even surgically enhanced. What chance does the prettiest girl on your street have to hold the attention of a man? The definition of a good looking man or woman has been changed.

And no, people weren't more virtuous back then. I've dug up enough stories from my family tree to know there were plenty of scoundrels back then too.

Sep 15th 2009

I've considered having an affair. Not having an affair with anyone in particular, but if I could, and how I would meet said partner, and if ultimately it would be worth it. I could even do it without getting caught, because of home all day, but having to maintain a boyfriend is more trouble than it's worth, I've decided. I don't mind maintaining a husband, because of other perks, but dragging another man into the house with all his catering to needs is just something I'm not in the mood for. I tend to enough people's needs as it is.

On the other hand, what I could really use is a bigger house with a sister wife in it. I am so down with that, although I'd want to cap her at two babies. Maybe she could work part time too and we could pay for a weekly housekeeper. Wouldn't that be fun? It's a lot more interesting for me to look around at all the people I know and sister wife shop than lover shop. I think I'd just get more out of bigamy than an affair.

These are probably the very thoughts that make me unattractive to other men, so it's probably a waste of time to think about it at all.

Sep 15th 2009

I have nothing against bigamy and think it would work for some people. I don't know why it's illegal.

As for me, I would stay faithful to my wife even if I was the most miserable man on earth, and she was the cause of my misery, out of some kind of devotion or duty or what have you. I'm not saying that to say that I'm better than someone who would cheat...obviously, I get some kind of satisfaction over being faithful no matter what, and that works for me.

Of course, I've never been seriously tempted either, so I don't know if I can say that with certainty. I've got plenty of cheating friends who say they never thought they'd be in that situation. But I'd like to think I would stay faithful.

Sep 15th 2009

As for me, I would stay faithful to my wife even if I was the most miserable man on earth, and she was the cause of my misery, out of some kind of devotion or duty or what have you.

I would rather my husband leave me if that were the case. I don't want to be the reason a miserable husband sticks around out of some sense of 'duty' or 'nobility'. That would make me feel awful.

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